Weight Watchers New for 2017?

December 10, 2016   265 Comments

Every couple of years, Weight Watchers revamps its program to include the latest in nutrition research.

Weight Watchers 2017

Some think that they change it in order to make you buy all new materials, but I think that they really do want the program to work. Last year (2016), they changed A LOT and moved from PointsPlus to SmartPoints.

Since I have written this post over 70 members commented on my Weight Watchers Review: Does it Work? and have shared their stories.

Check out my list of Weight Watchers recipes with Smart Points to help you with the program.

The migration to SmartPoints was not smooth. Weight Watchers didn’t manage to get their apps running well and plenty had problems accessing and understanding the new program.

What became very clear was that sugar and carbohydrates were going to cost much more on the SmartPoints system and protein was going to cost less. It felt to many as if Weight Watchers had adopted a “South Beach” approach.

In the past, Weight Watchers had said that you can eat what you love and still lose weight (moderation is key) – now the messages is “Make Better Choices”. I think it would be hard for many of us to argue that making better choices is a bad idea. You still have control over what you eat, but that piece of chocolate cake is going to be half your SmartPoints allowance for the day!

They continued to have their online service, and their meetings but they added personal coaching for about $11 per week. This new program gives a member one on one advice from a person well versed in Weight Watchers and personal help when a member needs it.

I think personal coaching can be powerful because you can trouble shoot your specific problems very quickly and feel accountable to someone who is on your side.

This year (2017), they are leaving the SmartPoints program alone and trying to build on its success. Plenty of people have found the reduction in sugar and carbohydrates to be a key in their weight loss success. But many are frustrated because they are finding this diet to be too restrictive.

They gripe that it feels more like a diet and less like a sustainable lifestyle change –which may be true since the new program has been only around for a year.

One criticism of SmartPoints that I find VERY compelling is that Weight Watchers is not only penalizing you for eating sugar and carbohydrates but also dinging you for eating fat. The latest thinking is that fat is not the enemy – read Always Hungry? if you get a chance.

I think we can all agree that the low fat movement hasn’t led to a reduction in overweight Americans – it has been the exact opposite trend.

Please share your thoughts about Weight Watchers for 2017 and any plans you are making for the New Year. We would all love to hear them!

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I agree that Smart Pounts is harder and more restrictive. I am a'Lifetime' member if WW and lost my weight on WWPP. I used to enjoy an ice cream bar every night as I lost weight. Now they reduced the size of the bars and doubled the points. Even Skinny Cow doesn't use WWPounts on their boxes anymore because they are so high. I feel that you need some treat during the day to be able to 'cope' with being in a 'diet' & the new system allows you none. Why change what already works? I follow the WWPP from memory and do not attends meetings anymore. I agree with "....they change it in order to........).

I really dislike the SP system. PP also encouraged better choices but left room for real life! It's a shame too because I don't know what to do for a formal program without WW and PP. I will probably just use MyFitnessPal but I always preferred PP.

Christine there is an app that is not affiliated with weight watchers that allows you to track on your phone with the points plus system. Ibites might be another one that allows you to choose which version of weight watchers you would like to use. Best of luck!!

Smart Points only ding you for Saturated Fat not regular fat which makes food satisfying and tasty. Saturated fat and sugar combined are at the root of the obesity in this country. As always it is about balance and portion control and yes sometimes moving a little more also! Smart Points does really work you just have to do more planning and get creative for those days you want those sweet treats💜

After a few months on SP I said the heck with it. I was doing well On PP but to learn a new program again no thanks. I quit WW and am watching portions on my own. I have lost better this way because I am not constantly thinking about food. What to eat, how many points etc. No more programs for me. I spend my money on healthy foods now.

I abandoned WW because of their approach to (healthy) fats. There is no scientific evidence that points to the consumption of good fats = weight gain. Future generations will look back on the past 50 years and shake their heads that we as a society prescribed so vigorously to this baseless philosophy that low fat was the way to go. The Obesity Code is another great read that maintains obesity is a hormonal challenge. My family doc recommended it and it's an eye opener.

I totally agree with the previous two comments. I think WW tried to change too much when they moved to SP. I no longer can afford to have the nightly Healthy Choice chocolate bar that hubby and I enjoyed for several years because it nearly doubled in points. The other favorite desserts I sometimes made for guests were suddenly too costly as well. Previously purchased WW cookbook recipes did not contain the sugar content and the only way to come up with that information required a painful search of each ingredient to calculate its sugar content. The SP program has had little support in the way of cookbooks. I feel the program was changed too much and I have lost interest in following such a restrictive program - and I am a lifetime member who lost 60 pounds and kept it off nearly four years now.

Dislike SP. Going to discontinue WW and try a different app for FREE.

I think it speaks volumes how WW leaders and prior members say they have had more success losing weight following Smart Points than before. I'm a fan of the healthier approach.

WW is the literally the ONLY diet that ever worked for me...and my parents. However, the change from PP to SP made it impossible for me to follow. What was so great about WW is you could still eat virtually anything, just in moderation. And it worked! My family was proof. Now, SP makes it like any other severely restrictive diet you won't stick with. Makes me sad because the one "doable" diet I searched my whole life to find is now gone. 😟

I'm very disappointed in WW and I shared it with corporate. They answered with just a formality letter they send to everyone. I've been a Lifetimer for over 20 years and attend meetings weekly. In the past 6 mos. I cannot lose the 4 lbs I've gained and I'm frustrated. But most of all I'm disappointed in the lines for weigh in at my facility. No privacy! Everyone knows who lost ,and worse who gained. Many WW friends are turned off and leaving WW. The line is out the door and often people leave who are on time restrictions. I'm hanging on,but not much longer. Please go back to weighing in a private area!

I lost over 100 lbs in old system. You learned choices, and balance. Quit when new plan came in after trying new plan. Frustrating system, not realistic to live in everyday world and with family. Won't go back until plan changes, I'm not wasting another penny on this current program'

I have done WW a few times, this is the BEST plan... I lost 8lbs my first week, and continue to lose every week... I also switch from Smartpoints to simply filling a few times a week! I am never hungry.....Thank goodness there not changing it!

Sue! They really took away the private weigh in? There was an episode on Mad Men where Betty went to a meeting and to me that just showed how humiliating that was!!

That said, I posted here a couple of weeks ago. Abbreviated version, I'm Lifetime and do not like SP, and I'm a vegetarian.

So for about 8 weeks now I've been basically working with the PointsPlus system. Only difference is I now eat 2% fat products vs fat free. Best news yesterday, my cholesterol went down 35 points!!

oh, and I've lost 11 pounds too.

DIETS DONT'T WORK!!! WW is a business and it wants your money. Eat food real food, just enough!! Eat when truly hungry. Stop when full. Eat lots of plants! And healthy fats! Stop dieting, America!!! It's not working!

I left when i knew SP would not be for me and is a diet. Sorry to read ww hasnt realuzed sp isnt for everyone. I need to lose some pounds but will follow pp or the cooking light program.

I was having problems taking the weight off with the pp when we started the smart points I liked it better I started to take the weight off that I have been struggling to get off and my doctor is very happy. I like it that it calculates the sugar too for one thing my doctor wants me to go sugar free and that is kind of hard so with the sp If the points are to hi then I kind of now that it has a lot of sugar in it too. I have lost 17 1/2 pounds now and have a few more to go. I have also found out that I get kind of sick to my stomach when I do eat a lot of sugary stuff .I love the SP

Burn more calories than you consume. Everything in moderation. I use Fitbit and Loseit (which is free). I think you need to keep track of calories, yes I tried Weight Watchers, Loseit is better and easier.

I LOVE the SP program. I was back at goal in no time and have maintained this loss for 9 months. I do not deprive myself but I dont over-indulge either. I healthy snack often and I treat myself occasionanally. There is a huge difference and this new program helped curtail my suggar addiction! I make sure that I stay in motion as well. No sitting around!

I am in agreement with most here. I lost a lot of weight and began eating much healthier on the PP system. I tried SP for a few months and then discontinued my membership. I found the same as others; it was too restrictive. I couldn't even afford to eat the Craisins on my salad. Yes, I know they have added sugar, but they added flavor and texture to my salads! Since I stopped, I have maintained my goal weight and even gone under at times by eating mostly pescatarian (a little fish and even less meat). I eat lots of vegetables and fruits, whole grains, nuts and some diary. YES! I do eat occasional goodies. I am going to Bertucci's today for lunch and have a Christmas party to attend tonight. I will try to make the healthier choices, but I am not going to chide myself for eating a few Christmas cookies either. It has been working for me - along with yoga and some fairly regular exercise. Stopping my WW membership was probably one of the "smartest" things I ever did. I suggest taking your money and putting it toward a gym membership or taking a fitness/yoga class instead. Sorry WW. I thought I couldn't live without you, but I CAN!

I lost 95 pounds on PP and loved it, after gaining a 15 pounds back I joined and found I hated the SP, I struggled to lose any weight, paying for a program that did not work for me made no sense. I went back to PP on my own and lost the pounds that I wanted to, and continue to keep it off. I really don't like the word diet, I like lifestyle change.

Been a member since 1980 became a lifetime member back then. Hubby followed years later. PP works the best for us. We like the fact a lot of packaged foods have those points listed and you can figure points for your own recipes you make plus what people put on line. I call it livable . Stopped going when I had to purchase my own materials and if your not on target have to pay a higher fee. Since retired on a budget and sorry to say but when Oprah bought it to me she is not a role model that motivates me.

ok if ww wants you to control intake of sugar that is fine BUT then why do they put so much in there shakes and treats...


I'm. Lifer too at first I was very negative towards it. But learn to work the program! A lot of power foods, exercise and weeklies and make it a lifestyle :)

I'm with Sherox, because that's my story. I lost 83 lbs on PP in 2009/2010. Then I stood still, what I call "practicing maintenace", staying at +/-20 lbs until SP, partially because I learned to "play the PP system", get my healthy guidelines in and still have too much sugar! SP helped me curtail that (that was a BIG step) and I appreciate the push to eat healthier than ever and move more. Despite a few life-gets-in-the-way setbacks, I am down that additional 20+ and confidently on my way. PEOPLE, losing weight and learning to eat healthier is hard work! AND it's a lifelong commitment involving learning, growing and changing and that is hard work. Changing it up and improving yourself is challenging but so worth it!

I lost weight on PP 5 years ago and did it by watching sugar and fat on my own, but I loved that the PP system gave me the option of having a good sweet treat when I wanted one. I continued with WW for 4 years, but when they changed to SP, I tried SP for a while on my own and did not like it. They even upped the points for milk! Bad idea! When I'm counting points, I do it by memory with PP.

I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with SP. What's unhealthy about lean protein, vegetables, and fruit? I've tried many WW programs all the way back to sweet potatoes and avocados being forbidden. I am 64, disabled with little mobility (no exercise), and I'm down over 72 lbs. since Feb. 2016. Also, I've done it all with WW Online! At least once a week I eat what I want. I wonder if these people who think "moderation" means sugar and fat daily. This is the easiest plan in my opinion, and it allows me the freedom to choose. Connect offers great support. Only time I want to keep munching is when I've eaten too much sugar. The journey is at least 50% mental and emotional. As I change my way of thinking, the weight takes care of itself.

I've have given this new SP system a chance. I lost 128 lbs on Core and PP and reached Lifetime several years ago. I maintained for 2 years. At the time SP came out I had gained a little but was basically maintaining in the healthy range. Now this 4th year I am up 10 pounds more! I just don't think SP is terribly realistic, nor do I not like being able to adjust my target points (which it use to allow me to do). I am thinking about using a different program to track and still pay for the support I need in the meetings. Will you ladies give me the names of the BEST APPS you've found to use on the PP system. I know there are some good ones out there that even scan points like the WW does on our phones. Just need some help finding them!

I am having great success with pp and am loving the app now. Synching with my Garmin tracker is a must. My focus each week is on the activity goal and feel this plan encourages movement of all kind not just going to the gym...Ick. I feel better and have more enetegy when i get my activity,walking, yoga, and swim, are my things with having bad knees. I always eat my weeklies on a good binge or extra pts each day-depending on the week. I usually go into my fitness points a bit, too. Dark chocolate is the way to go for treats. I am online only and also addicted to Connect. I like that WW is keeping up with current health research.

If the old WW system worked for anyone just keep doing it. I know many people who went to WW one day to sign up and got all the materials and do it on their own. When the plans changed still kept on old one. Do what works for you!

I had reached my goal in September of 2015. Was very disappointed when I had to learn a new program all over again in December especially when I had lost weight on the old one. But in the long run I was very glad I adapted to the new one and was even able to loose a few more pounds. Being 5 pounds under your goal weight is a win win in my book.

I joined WW on January 7, 2016. As of this morning, I am down 58#. I have not felt deprived one single bit as I have rewarded myself and stayed within my points. I have become very disciplined. I am 70 years old and I figured this was my last shot. I feel good, I look great. My BP is normal (have cut my meds in half), am no longer border diabetic. I don't ache, I can bend with ease and my breathing is normal, no more huffing and puffing. I will get my lifetime charm this Thursday, last time was about 30 years ago when the program was horrible. We even had to make our own catsup. WW has invested a great deal of money into their program to help us all. It is such a healthy, EASY way to eat, lose and maintain. Not saying I won't lose it tomorrow, but I certainly will try my best to maintain this healthy lifestyle. Good luck to everyone and thank you WEIGHT WATCHERS!!!

Lost over 80 lbs on PP. With SP the past year, 30 lbs have crept back. It's frustrating to put in 4 years of $$ and hard work to get unsustainable results.

I have been a lifetime member since 1994. When I chose my goal weight, it was the high end of the range, and I decided I wanted to give myself more of a cushion. This was when PP were introduced. I followed it faithfully but did not lose an ounce. I recently went back to WW with the new SP program and lost 10 pounds. Sugar and carbs really are not good for us, so I am glad it is restricted. Saturated fat may not make anyone gain weight, but it can clog your arteries. I have been very happy with the new program. For me, it really comes down to planning and the strategic use of weekly points and exercise.

I think members should be allowed to use the plan that works best for them. They should receive the materials they need on and off line. I find the SP website hard to navigate, took me several minutes to find where to track my weight. SP is too restrictive .. I'm doing PP

I love the Smart Point program. I find it so easy to work with. And I eat whatever I want and just track it. I joined January 2016 and have lost 55 pounds. I have 40 more pounds to go. I have had both of my sisters join and we are all loving this new program. I'm also so happy with all the web sites that have great recipes for us. Thank you snack girl. You are one.

am ending my membership. Was a lifetime member (twice) but the new program does not work for me. I need to have a structure to follow. Think I will use the money for a gym membership. Maybe I will wait for another change to the program.

I recently returned to WW and not sure why. It's all about selling products. A few years ago I returned, yet again, to a leader that had been doing WW for years. When I first went to WW meetings members would bring in products that they found helpful and delicious and we talked about it and how many points they contained. The next time I returned to the same leader I asked about that and she told me that they were not allowed to talk about products unless they were WW products which are overpriced items available on regular shelves. It's a corporation to make money.

I have been a Lifetime Membet of WW up until about 6 years ago and then maintained without meetings. I got tired of points period and have been eating Paleo since August and I love it. I think my body needed more meat and healthy fats. I don't even care about the sugar and carbs anymore. I feel this is a lifetime change for me. And I have lost 13 lbs.

Donna, we talk about products frequently, not WW products but others available in the stores. Sounds like the leader is a bit "off" on that one.

I am lifetime member with WW and I dislike the new Smart Points program. I gained all the weight that I had lost on Points Plus. Still going but do not like the new points program

Just out of curiosity, what don't you like about it?

Will WW go back to weighing us in a separate room? If not many of my WW friends will leave program. We hear everybody's loss or gain. We wait so long to weigh in that we miss meeting. Embarrassing! Our leader does not talk about food other than WW products. Our previous leader always allowed us to talk about food that help us stay on program. But then told us it was not allowed unless it was WW products.

I too have left WW when they switched to SP, everything was going so well on PP for me and finally felt I was jiving with the program. What would be wonderful is if they would have kept the PP program and just included the SP program. I feel it's a money marketing ploy to switch programs and have to start over. I left WW...

Does anyone know if they plan on bringing back the healthy guideline checkboxes? I really miss them!

My husbanf and I are lifetime members of WW. We lost all are weight on the Points Plus. Smart Points really threw us. We have learned so much by attending sessions and following Points Plus but are disenchanted with Smart Points approach. I wish they had kept both programs and let you choose. Our leader still encouraged better choices, less sugar, exercise, movement etc. Mindful eating worked. Now everything ypu scan seems a no no and really seems limiting in some areas and so much more like a diet

I'm extremely disappointed in smartpoints also. I don't mind less carbs but I do mind making barbecue sauces, ketchup and steak sauces points. Some times that's what helped me eat that chicken breast or that steamed shrimp. When I have to choose sauce over food it makes me not want to continue the diet. Wish they would change things back.

I agree with the many who find SP too restrictive. I feel they fixed something that wasn't broken, and with the big changes it felt like they "sprung it on us"...and feels like WW is telling me how I will eat now. I made lifetime and maintained for more than a year on PP. Now I am back up 17 lbs above goal weight. While I enjoy going to meetings and love my leader and friends I have made in WW I have decided to quit and basically go back to PP on my own. Very sad about that but I need something that is truly liveable or I will soon be back where I started.

Weight Watchers SmartPoints plan is science based..wish I could argue that increased sugar and saturated are good for us..hmmm..not so much!

I lost 50 lbs on pp wt watchers.. the new sp increased points for all there frozen treats, and they count the sugars, but they load up there expensive cakes and ice treats with sugar.. started gaining back with sp and I was paying allot for the meetings to gain.. now I do an online sight and I am losing again just counting calories and it is so much easier.. do you really have to pay 60-70 dpllars a month and then for there product with allot of sugar at 7-8 dollars.. not me I have better things, like some expensive treats like filet migon steak

I've been lifetime since '86, and never struggled as much as I did on SP. I REALLY gave it a try...more than once. No more! I'm now in a group on FB that uses PP and apps that are free or a one time $5 fee. We support each other and even have a weekly chat session. It's great. Now I can spend the money I save on WW on healthy foods. WW lost me when they more than doubled some of my survival sweet treats.

Wendy, may I ask the name of the group on FB?

Has anyone had a problem with group weigh in and no privacy?

I was doing SP and kept gaining after I had lost 20 on PP so my leader suggested that I switched to simply filling , I don't feel restricted any longer to me I can have comfort food simply Filling is much better for me. and I have lost 9 more pounds. I love the women in our group

I was doing very well until they changed the program. I would be in the store and the app. Never worked, even when I would reload it. So frustrated that I couldn't scan products yet was being charged monthly while they were really not ready to release the appt.

Wendy, I, also, would like the name of the FB group you refer to in your comment. Share, please?!

I am a Lifetimer -- been on every program since the '70s. I LOVE the Smart Points program. It is the BEST program of all. It is the way we all should be eating to be healthy. Eat the Power Foods most of the time and you can treat yourself now and then on something special. I've done Simply Filling for my maintaining, and that is basically what the Smart Points program is. If you want to lose weight and then keep it off forever, this is the way you need to eat.

wendy... I would also like to know group on facebook..I am very interested

I agree with most who have posted. I am a lifetime member of WW. am way above goal can't stand smart points can't stick with it will just do pointts plus on my own WW website not accessible for blind people like me

I was a WW receptionist and leader for over 6 years. SmartPoints did no favors for me. I have gained many more pounds since the start of SP. I think some of us need the discipline of counting our fruits as points(they have lots of sugar).

I lost 60 pounds on PointsPlus and was on maintenance as a WW lifetime member when they rolled out SmartPoints. I couldn't stand it for these reasons:

* SmartPoints severely penalizes sugar in any form - even the value of dairy went through the roof because of lactose, ignoring the protein and calcium benefits. Sure, sugar is no good for you but this was way overboard.

* Same with any fat - big penalties even for olive oil despite the known benefits.

* Other values were very out of whack. I once made a cod filet with a bread crumb topping, and 8 ounces of the fish was worth less points than 2 tablespoons of plain bread crumbs!

* SmartPoints also restricted weekly allowances to the point where the program was unlivable for me. One ordinary restaurant meal or one treat a week and I'd be in the red with no way to get into the black.

* The technology was terrible. The app didn't work and the Website's interface was laughably bad. Free apps are so much better.

* The new "community" function was useless to me. Instead of having friends, blogs, support groups etc. where we made real connections with others, we had Twitter-like feeds of nonsense all day.

* The price went up.

* The WW brand foods are STILL full of garbage. I never bought them because of all the junk in them. WW had an opportunity to change its branded foods and didn't take it but kept selling the same junk.

* We were promised a free trial of personal coaches, but the interface never worked.

* Finally, as a loyal WW customer and very grateful for PointsPlus for changing my life, I felt that WW treated me like garbage. The new experience offered nothing for Lifetime and Maintenance members and really treated us as though we did not exist. This reinforced my belief that WW was just interested in making money off of us. I began to view WW as a crutch I didn't need anymore, so I cast it off.

I am very disappointed in WW. I too was a lifelong member and quit in 2016 because it is too complicated and too time-consuming to figure out all the points. I was a weight watcher member many many years ago when they had the board on the fridge and you simply checked off what you ate. I lost a lot of weight then!! Just because you change something, doesn't mean it's better. My girlfriend and I both quit weight watchers this year and I will not go back until they get rid of all the complicated points. Such a shame!!!

The FB group that I'm in is

WW Points Plus(ProPoints)-No Smart Points

There are over 1,700 people from ALL over!

So sorry it took me so long to get back.

Overall, in my opinion, a strict diet is hard to keep for a lifetime. With SP things go along ok for a while until one gets tired of it...then there is a big weight gain. PP is so much more flexible and the weight stays off after(4 yrs for me). I finally quit WW and I miss the ladies there but it's become a bit much with their aggressive sales of WW treats and expensive books etc. Too bad, it used to be great.

Been with WW since the 1970's thru all sorts of changes.I am a lifetime member who has to go back to meetings every so often to keep on track. SP is the worst change ever. I will continue to go to meetings for the encouragement but I am sticking with PP.

I am surprised at some of the comments. I really like the SP. I have had no problem adjusting to the new system. Something is working. The weight loss numbers in my meeting room are good. To me it is just a budget, when the prices go up we make adjustments with our money, same thing with SP. I like it, I am a Lifetime member.

With computer technology, I don't understand why a person can't have access to the past program which worked for them. I lost 60# on Flex/Core in 2008-2009 but when they changed the program, all of my online data was lost. Every saved recipe had to be revamped. I personally know of NO ONE who is happy with last year's changes.

It's so expensive and buying their products is expensive. It's hard for a retired person to even think about going. I had all the points plus stuff, scale, cookbooks, and then they changed. I didn't want to rebuy all those products.

I HATE Smart Points. I was hungry all the time, no matter how much protein I ate or suggestions I followed from the meeting leader. Huge waste of money for me. I was much more successful in the old days when we had so many breads, proteins, etc.

PP was an awesome program SP is not for everyone. Let's have choice. Make both plans available to allow us a choice of which makes you successful. Disappointed as the new plan is not a lifestyle

I'm a Lifetime member and have been on most of the changes in program since I originally lost in 1976 ! But when smart points was brought in last year I quit WW. To restrictive but also way to big achange to quickly. So I got an App that does points plus and I'll stick with that. Very very disappointed in weight watchers they've always tried to be more balanced this is not.

Not a fan of Smart Points. I've been lifetime for twelve years. Haven't darkened their doorstep since they rolled out the new program. I knew it wasn't for me. I've maintained by following PP on my own.

Yesterday I discovered an app called "itrackbites" which allows you to choose from 3 different Points calculations or counting calories. It was $2.99 for the app. There are add-ons for $1.99 each for restaurant search and recipe builder. Since the plan I used was Flex/Core I chose the Classic plan. NAYY

I joined for the first time last March. Needed to lose 20 lbs. I made goal and I like how they make me watch my sugar intake as I have a sweet tooth. I do not like that the leader always talks about fat being bad. It is not! Also she is big on sugar substitute, which I am not. But I take what I can from the meetings and it has kept me on track to stay within my weight range.

Sue - I completely agree. I also like that I need to pay more attention to the sugar I eat and I don't like sugar substitutes. I find on the new plan my cravings for sweets has lessened. I also have increased eating healthy fats like avocado and nuts, which also mitigates cravings.

I finally got back to goal and under for the first time in several years. Mostly because of the new outlook on sugar and carbs. My goal is to stay there now that I have a slew of medical problems out of the way. Thank you for always looking out for your members.

I'm the opposite of many of the commenters here. I tried the Points Plus program more than once, and abandoned it quickly every time. It simply didn't work for me. The way it leaned towards carbs left me hungry and craving more. The SP program is working for me, and feels so much more maintainable. I guess we all have different needs.

For those who feel that WW got too restrictive when they upped the points on sugar, did you notice how easy it is to earn fitpoints now? You can still have your sweets - you just have to move a bit more to earn them. I think when you consider the increase in dailies and fitpoints things still even out in the end.

I just read Planet Fitness has joined with Ww. Too far for me and I belong to a gym by me. I am a lifetime member and I combine all the programs. I truly tried to stay away from sugar but at night when I feel like it! I will have a sugar free pop. They say too many fruits are not zero points. I can't do a ww app - so here I am . Yes I wrote to cooperate and was told the new program works! The vegg soup is the best for me that I make and many great sites-

I think SP was the best thing that ever happened to WW. I've been a member for many years...but would quit when the going got hard. But when they introduced the Smart Points last year....I thought I would quit again because so many of my favourite treats were so high! But guess what? was those "treats" that were doing all of the damage. I finally got back to lifetime and have been below my goal weight for almost 7 months....last time I reached lifetime I was only successful for a few weeks before my weight climbed back up. Is it hard?...yes....but it's worth it. Sugar and Saturated fats were the culprits for me....if it doesn't work for you...don't blame Weight Watchers. Sometimes you have to be willing to make a few sacrifices to succeed. I have found other choices to replace my "bad" snacks and now I am much healthier and happier. Thank you Weight Watchers......

Good Morning Judy,

I am with you! SP are the best!! I have been with WW since 2009. I am a Lifetime Member. SP keep me in check. Yes some of my favorite treats went up, but those treats were the problem. It is a journey, and I am enjoying it. Keep up the good work. If you work the plan, the plan works!!

Steph C

In 2016, I've spent a lot of $ at Weight Watchers, and I've gained a lot of weight.

Who's fault is it? Of course, it's mine. However, I find the Smart Points program too difficult to do as a lifestyle.

I discoverd all of my old Points Plus material last night, including the calculator.

I'm going back to the program that worked for me.

There are apps that track and use Points Plus? If so, what have you used and liked?


I like the app
the ultimate food value diary
It tracks either PP or SP

It's only a onetime fee of $4 or $5 dollars. You can upgrade if you want to sync an activity tracker or just put it in yourself. I saved so much money!

Another app that people use is itrackbites

WW is all about eating anything and everything but moderation. SP is about penalizing you for treats. I am a lifetime who started to gain as soon as I did SP. I downloaded a PP version from the App Store am back below goal. WW have made themselves into a diet into a lifestyle. Shame one them. I have been at or below goal for two plus years, SP almost derailed me. Glad I found PP again. Oprah claims all this success. Of course I would be uber successful, if I had a personal chef, trainer and baker. If I had enough money to have someone make and plan all my meals I could conquer the world.

I miss PP. lost 30 lbs and felt WW had a great program. SP is way to restrictive and I stopped going to meetings.

Why can't WW offer both programs and support both ?

I was a proud Lifetime member of WW because it promoted a lifestyle rather than a diet with Points Plus. I left when Smart Points came in because I view it as an unsustainable diet; just the sort of short term eating plan that other companies promote that have failure built in. I still do Points Plus, and I miss the WW meetings, but my disappointment with them is off the charts. People need to learn how to eat what they love in sensible portions so they can develop habits that will allow them to eat what they love without guilt; WW has lost its vision, turned on its core members, and abandoned a program that served them well. They could have offered both plans. I wish the company well, but clearly that good will was not reciprocated to their long time members.

I was a proud Lifetime member of WW because it promoted a lifestyle rather than a diet with Points Plus. I left when Smart Points came in because I view it as an unsustainable diet; just the sort of short term eating plan that other companies promote that have failure built in. I still do Points Plus, and I miss the WW meetings, but my disappointment with them is off the charts. People need to learn how to eat what they love in sensible portions so they can develop habits that will allow them to eat what they love without guilt; WW has lost its vision, turned on its core members, and abandoned a program that served them well. They could have offered both plans. I wish the company well, but clearly that good will was not reciprocated to their long time members.

I left WW because the SP was not livable. I lost weight and enjoyed the variety I got with Points Plus. Smart Points concept is logical however it's not sustainable.

I'm guessing Oprah lost the 60 lbs LAST year and gain and lost 40 THIS year (again) because it doesn't look like she lost 100 lbs IN TOTAL.

Really saddened me that WW didn't listen for the full year that members struggled and left. Instead, WW remained adamant to keep the SP and not be flexible like they once were.

Using an app for free and doing well.

I am a lifetime member and I have seen all the programs but the one they went to last year made me walk away from WW. We all know that being restricted has never been a success. What they had going was a good program and when Oprah came aboard they began to make big changes and many of us walked away. So my prediction is the only loss that will continue to happen is Weight watchers revenue. Once their share holders get tired of the loss then they will go back to what was successful. So as WW continues to lose not in pounds but dollars you need to know there are a LOT of us out here who will find other programs to help us with what we came to you for, but you didn't care about what worked but what is new. I would wish you good luck, but I know it is not in your future.

After spending the entire year of 2016 failing on Weight Watchers Smart Points, I finally faced the reality that it is not something which I can do. For me, it's definitely a diet and nothing that I can or want to do long-term.

I started My Fitness Pal the day after Christmas, and though there is a learning curve, I am enjoying it and doing well. I'm sort of excited and optimistic for the first time in a year.

I think that this will be fine.

My New Year's Resolution? No more futile payments to Weight Watchers.

I know Oprah follows SP. But, does actually do her own planning and cooking. I'm disappointed with SP. Let's go back to PP. We had bread on that program too.

I agree with those who believe the old point system works. I still have the little cardboard slide that lets you put in the calories, fat, etc and gives you the number of points. It was so easy and that's what I need ... I don't have time to deal with the two latest new programs. My frustration with WW's recipes on line (the only reason I still belong is for the recipes) is that they don't include calories or the info that you need for the old calculation of points. They just give the number of points. Even if that info would be included with the recipes it would be better and allow people to follow whichever point system works for them. Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

I find Smart Points hard to stay on. A 90 Calorie Special K bar went from 1 point to 6.

I quit ww a year shortly after sp. I have still over a 100 to lose. I felt if I was going to be restrictive, I might as well go very restrictive for awhile. I am on Jenny Craig. I have lost more weight. When I decide to get off Jenny Craig, I will look for one of those apps for points plus. I might go to weight watcher meetings for support, but I will use a points plus plan. I think SP is too restrictive also. I do not know hardly any skinny people that eat that way.

As a lifetime member for 30 years and a former WW leader I did have some concerned about the restrictions but being 15lbs up after Christmas 2015 I said I would give it a try. After 2 months I was down 10 lbs so I continued. I lost something every month . Now after A year on SP I am actually almost 10 lbs below goal. I no longer cravy sweets or bread. I have found some great foods and substitutions I enjoy and have become almost regimented. #Happierthanever

I've lost 60 pounds on WWPP but have moved away from WW since SP. I find I cannot sustain it and it feels punitive. I could never have lost my weight on SP. I'm now using what I learned at WW and using a free app. That's the other problem, they've stopped teaching. Their modules are so "pie in the sky." They never address "real" issues anymore. I feel like WW has walked away from members who have a lot of weight to lose on SP. It would be a never ending and expensive journey. They've become more like a diet. But of course, they have an ever expanding product line with things for you to "buy." Clearly they've lost their way. I think Oprah cares more about making money that losing weight. Sorry to see you go WW. I loved the old you!!

I have been Lifetime with Weight Watchers for almost 34 years. I have lived through MANY programs, and I have to laugh when people say it is too restrictive. WW used to specify which foods you are at each meal; liver was a requirement once a week, fruits were limited to 3 per day and 1 had to be citrus........I could keep going, but you get the idea. I embraced SP when it came out as if I was a new member, and within 4 months had lost 14 pounds. Since I am AT Lifetime, that is no mean feat!!! I don't crave sugar anymore since I have limited my choices, my biggest issue is getting in enough points with healthy choices. Plans will come and go. You need to tweak it for what works for YOU. WW is a scientifically based weight loss program, and it is constantly evolving as they find out more and more about the body and nutrition.

There is an awesome app that is very inexpensive called iTrackBites. This app supports any version of points that works for you. For example if Flex Points worked best for you it is under "Classic Points". Whichever one you choose has corresponding calculator & when you start it will determine your points based on formula for that program. As you lose weight the points automatically change for you. If you switch up between plans it will keep any saved food lists with your point values. For instance if you want to try Smart Points but decide to go back to Points Plus your saved food/point values will still be there. It's a really cool app at a very low price. They also have community boards where you can get support from people doing whatever program you are on.

I have been with WW since the 1970's. I've been thru many changes. When WW changed to the PP program, it was the best. I could eat what I liked and still lost or maintained weight. I tried the SP program for a few months. It was so restrictive that I stopped after a few months, Dropped my WW membership. I continue using the PP concept using the iTrackBites phone app. This way all the WW cookbooks I have are still useful and not money wasted. Love the PP program.

I lost over 100-lbs on PP, I'm now gaining because I don't like it, this changing often is not good if it's more points, I think they brought in Oprah to

stir things up, not going back , trying the pp on my own.

I've been on WW many times in the past. I know the program works -- it was just me who didn't continue it time after time. Well, I started in August 2015 and was having a ton of success (I have over 100 pounds to lose and I was down 40 by the end of 2015). I think that I finally got it through my head that I need to eat to live, not live to eat. Then Oprah stepped in. I know what healthy eating it, I just choose not to follow it! The thing I loved about WW is that you COULD eat anything you wanted in moderation and it almost always fit into my daily points (remember that I got a lot more points because I had to much weight to lose). I understood that as my points got lower, I would have to change things up a bit to stay within my points to continue to lose weight. SmartPoints, as the article above mentioned, reminded me of the South Beach diet -- cut out cards and eat mostly lean protein. Well, if I could do that easily, then I wouldn't be overweight. I like to have treats every day and with the SmartPoints plan, I feel as though the "treats" don't fit in. WW was teaching me how to eat properly while having a treat every now and then. SmartPoints basically tells me to cut out everything that is "bad" for me. Regardless, I tried Oprah's plan and it simply didn't work for me. I know I could try harder, but that was the thing I loved about WW -- eat what I want but stay in within my points. If I wanted to eat chocolate all day, I could if I stayed within my points. Now, if I chose to eat chocolate all day, I couldn't eat that much. I know that's not a healthy diet, it is just an example. I'm at a loss now because I need to start something and I'm not happy with WW. It was the only diet I ever tried -- I don't believe in cutting out certain foods and WW taught you that you didn't have to. I really wish they would go back to their old points system -- or bring it back and you can choose which one you want to follow.

I lost over 100 lbs using PP. It definitely taught me to make smarter choices and I also agree that SP is too restrictive. With PP I am able to better plan for those occasional dinners out with friends and such. I have always tried to pre-plan by looking at online menus and nutritional information, but with SP I feel backed into a corner. I have always used my workouts and activity points as a way to balance if needed (as my goal has always been to never touch my bonus weekly points - if I need more points I earn them ahead of time through exercise - again...comes down to planning). I don't understand the point to fit points or how to use them. The entire app I find not very user friendly (and I love technology). Just frustrating. I have an app called Points Plus Diary that is super easy to use and am using that again now and just following PP. I am thankful for that system allowing me to live my life (which isn't always possible to plan) and giving me options for a healthier life style. Saying goodbye to WW until they give us more options again.

I quit WW when they went to Smart Points and went back to my old materials from PP. It works for me. I never feel deprived--in fact I feel like I'm eating TOO much, yet I lost about 30 pounds and have kept it off for more than a year. That fudge bar at the end of the evening feels like an earned treat on PP, not like an SP high point punishment!

If you know anything about nutrition you know SP is a much healthier plan. People complain that it's too restrictive because they are used to having sweet snacks or high carbed snacks every day! Precisely why we have so many pre-Diabetics and Diabetics in this country. Sure it's hard to discipline yourself,but do you want to stay overweight, losing your health? The WW plan works!

I agree and am quiting WW because of the SP are like going back to WW in the 70s. It was a diet you couldn't wait to reach your goal and stop. I am a life time member. I joined back when PP was introduced and lost weight with no problem. I tracked on my phone and the PP system and the easy phone program I lost and boasted of how good the plan was then entered SP and a new program. It went down hill quickly. The computer & phone program are not user friendly & Diet is just like the 70s & 80s. I was in several "At Work" programs as well as the regular program. It was so restrictive that the it is now a diet and not teaching a way of life. It's discouraging and not encouraging like it once was that you felt "I can do this". The instructors are great. They do their best to try to explain why it's a good thing but you now it's like reading an article. After class your pumped and ready to try again but when you go to eat out or even at home with your family you can't enjoy what they are having because, even a little because it doesn't fit in at all. You blew the day. this goes on too many times that it becomes your paying for nothing. I have been paying yet haven't gone back for weeks because I gained wait then feel guilty so I am quiting. Hopfully you will believe all these people because we are the ones that believed in your system and would like to again.

In response to this comment from above: "I think it speaks volumes how WW leaders and prior members say they have had more success losing weight following Smart Points than before."

I worked for WW for over 10 years as a highly successful leader. Staff are TOLD to say that, whether or not it was true in their individual trial run, so that members would buy into the new program. All staff would be introduced to the new program a month or two before its release to the members. We were instructed to follow the new program. More often than not (I am thinking of the old CORE plan...), staff struggled with the new program. We were usually counseled that we "had to get out head in the game."

Sorry to burst your bubble...WW is a multi-million dollar business that is trying to reinvent itself through yet another new program and a bigger-than-life celebrity :(

I did great with PP but Traktor struggle with SP as a runner. I can do well without the sugar but have to have some carbs as a distance runner. Haven't decided if in going to remain a member.

I too loved the old program. I started losing weight for the first time in my life. I was only on it for 3 months when they changed it. Hated it, couldn't follow it to save my life. I was and am so disappointed. Gained all my weight back plus some. Actually, I found this website trying to see if maybe they changed it back because I finally quit. Guess no luck with that idea!

I absolutely hate SP I feel like its not realistic and feels more like the latest trend!! On PP I felt in control my activity point in addition to my my bonus points motivated me to want to workout because I knew if I had a dinner date or vacation I still kept my weight under control.I don't like how WW keeps constantly changing the program I lost 51 pounds on PP and I gained 25 on SP out of frustration.. I keep looking for my old books to go back to PP but I can't find them.WW needs to stick with what works and stop trying to compete with Competition that they already clearly have beat. Stick with what works for the majority of people. PLEASE

I agree SP for me is not working. I started WW 2 years ago this month. I was 132 pounds. I lost 13 pounds on PP and now I have gained it all back plus 3 pounds. I am still going to WW however I am still struggling.

There must be a reason WW will not listen to complaints. I wrote them directly and their answer was it's staying this way. I wish I had my PP counter and I'd stay on it. Friends who kept using PP have most success. I know it's about sugar! But the PP still helped so much more!

Lost 30lbs on the PP plan, when they switched to SP it was close to Christmas & I had just started a new job. I found the new system hard to do & too restrictive. I loved the PP system and I had it down to a T with pleanty of go to options. It worked so well for me. I left after the new program came in. So disappointed in WW. Who changes their system just before Christmas when you need them the most. They shot themselves in the foot I think. Won't trust them again.

I love the new plan! The old one seemed to encourage a lot of pre-packaged food, etc. and that turned me off. Is it easy? No. Especially at first. It took me awhile to get in the swing of it. However, I still use my own common sense. The smoothie rule (fruit and veg have points)? I ignore it. My breakfast smoothies are mostly veggies and I put no sweetener in them. You would never confuse them with a "milkshake" and they help me get all my vegetables in. I don't try overly hard to hit my points (up or down). I use WW only as a guide and tool because that is all it is. Nobody is going to come knock the Skinny Cow out of your hand so enjoy it if you want one and just do the best you can reasonably do.

Kym, I'm using the itrackbites app. It was $2.99 plus $1.99 each for the recipe builder and the restaurant guide. You can choose from 3 programs -I used WW Core/Flex which I think became Momentum but get those points using the Classic version. I believe you can change from one to another or just use calories. I have never understood the logic of not allowing one to continue to use what worked for them other than leading to failure and continuing to collect $$ as we beat our heads into a wall!

This is my second reply. I canceled my WW membership and now I feel completely free. I will do points plus on my own. Kim I think you might be able to find at least some of the points plus material on Amazon.

Points Plus hand-held calculators are plentiful on Ebay - if anyone is looking for one.

Reiteration. The formula for PP can be found on line. I set up an Excel spread sheet that I use in conjunction with my excel journal.

As a previous contributor wrote, I too was able to get a PP calculator on eBay for when I go food shopping.

I guess in the end WW did me s favor. Love the independence. I am in control now.

I've been on every WW program since the 70s. This is by far the absolutely best program they have ever had. It is based on the way you SHOULD be eating. People saying it is too restrictive? Not at all. You can have whatever you want -- you just have to plan for it. I lost my weight on Points Plus, but have been maintaining following Simply Filling -- because I do not want to track any longer. I was a religious tracker for losing, but I knew I would be trailing off after I hit my lifetime goal again. Smart Points is really the same as Simply Filling -- this is the way I eat. I eat for good health and I eat for maintaining my 94 pound weight loss. It has been working for me -- kept it off now for three and a half years. I do not understand people thinking this is some fad diet. Really? If you want to lose weight and keep it off, you need to realize that this is the way to do it.

Use itrackbites app for only $2.99. It has all the WW plans. I've been using it for PP. I still go to meetings for the encouragement and I'm still losing!! I'm a lifetime member so I go when I need help.

I've been a lifetime member for 40 years, including a few years as a leader. I hate this new plan. And when I stayed behind and talked to the leader, her advice was I'd have to decide if I wanted to stay with WW. What kind of advice is that. The new plan, even maintenance is a restrictive diet, not a lifetime eating plan.

I agree with comment about reaction of leader saying maybe WW wasn't for her. I've done the 30 pts and tracked,etc. I think it's too many points for me,but it's also too restrictive to do less points. I still have my PP calculator and just might do it for a week to see. The push to do program online makes it seem like they are just into $$$$$. It's become impersonal. Also,what's with these lines. Some of us missed the entire meeting due to long lines and computer mess ups. Ugh!

Couldn't DISAGREE MORE!!!!!

I had gastric bypass surgery. I knew that it was not a magic wand, so I joined ww. I was very pleased I lost a total of 95 lbs between ww and my surgery. Then they changed the program. I was totally lost. I could not loose any weight. I was gaining! It is terrible. I wish I still had all my paperwork from before the change I would do this program. Before surgery I tried every diet out there. NOne worked. I don't want to go through this again. What am I going to do??????

Since there seems to be so many people complaining about the smart points, I for another, why doesn't Weight Watchers just give you the choice to either be on Smart points or PointsPlus?

Am I one of the only few who LIKES the new SP program? I'm lifetime...since 1978... (I went on at 8 years old...they let kids do it back then) and the new revamped online program has been amazing for me. When I need a sweet thing I grab pineapple spears instead of ice cream. It feels more wholesome, as it's not peppered with artificial sweeteners and other difficult things to announce. I've been more creative with the meals that I cook (I am looking at veggies in a different way now), and love that the activity portion really pushes me. Anyone with me?

Itrackbites app has all the WW points for all the old plans

WW is not going to go backwards. This is the best and healthiest program they have ever had. This is the way you need to eat to maintain your weight, so you might as well start eating this way to lose it. Come on, people! If you want to lose weight, you cannot eat tons of junk food. Now the points on that kind of stuff has gone up and people are complaining. I've been on every program WW has had since the 70s, and this is by far the best. Sure, you can have a treat once in a while, but you shouldn't be having treats every day -- just not healthy.

If you no longer have your old materials but want to follow an old plan there is an app called Ultimate Food Value Diary. You can set which plan to follow and it will track your points. You can scan products or key in information. I think it costs $3 or $4. I've used it for years.

In the past year I've restarted SP so many times I've lost count! The program is just not doable for me and has sent me on many food binges. I'm back to PP using the itrackbites app. If my group leader doesn't like it, well too bad! I'm paying WW not vice versa, I can do the plan I want!

A lifetimer who has been going to WW for 22 years, I am now ready to drop out. For the first time in all those years I am feeling deprived. I am a volume eater and I could always work in a little treat every once in a while but now when I do, I have to cut my eating in half and am left hungry. For the first time, I feel like I am on a diet and that's not fun! I also have found that I am starting to gain weight now rather than maintaining. The program is too expensive to get negative results.

I've lost 75blbs. in 11 months on the smartpoints plan online only. I'm also disabled with arthritis, bad hip, horrible spine, so I've done this with no exercise! I seldom leave the house because walking is even difficult. At least once a week I eat whatever I want. I've basically lost interest in sugar after limiting it. It's all about you choose to lose, or do you choose to eat what you want. Oh, and I'm 64, so age isn't a factor. Some lose slower, some lose faster, but you follow the plan and lose. It's the healthiest plan WW has had since it's beginning. I'm at a weight I've not seen in 40 years. It's a lifestyle and not a diet...a journey and not a destination.

I got SO sick of them changing the program in January every year. I'd just get going, have great momentum, know the point values of my favorite foods, and be able to stick with it. Finally quit before Smart Points.

Went to Jenny Craig and lost 60 pounds. I wondered why all the eponymous WW shops were closing and just going to the church/school model. Now I know why. They screwed their customers over SO badly that no one wants to use them anymore. The reason WHY their system worked so well is that you could have stuff like pizza and ice cream on it. Take that away, there's nothing special about you. Nothing.

So glad to see other people on here agreeing. I did PP for 2 years abd lost 60 lbs on it. It was the best thing I have ever done as far as my health goes - I was never hungry and I lived a "normal" life. I tried SP for about 10 months and was never able to lose any weight. Bottom line - I found the change completely unmanageable and too restrictive, and I no longer felt I could eat anything at all anymore except chicken and veggies. SP didn't make me feel "normal" in any way. I also hate the way they have shifted focus from the main goal of losing weight and being healthy in moderation to things like the evils of sugar intake. I've stopped paying for WW and switched ro MyFitnessPal for now, but this whole thing has really frustrated and discouraged me and I'm back to feeling like I just can't do it.

Would love to hear other suggestions from people who found different, more reasonable options, and would love to join some groups on MFP - camitricity - if anyone were interested.

SPEAKING IS THE BEST, HEALTHIEST PROGRAM WWE HAS EVER COME OUT WITH! You eat FOOD that is good for you, not prepared, frozen TV dinners. It is restrictive SO YOU LOSE WEIGHT! Eating what you want IS WHAT GOT YOU FAT! If you check all the info out there sugar and fat ARE NOT GOOD FOR YOUR BODY.You should be thankful WW is keeping up with nutritional science and stop wining because it's harder. Do you want to get healthier? Then do what's required OR stay in your overweight patterns and whine because you're gaining again and feeling so good about yourself.

CJ- join on Facebook a group with over 1,800 members:

Weight Watchers points plus(pro points)-No smart points

We have weekly meetings on Sundays where we share thoughts and info. It's such an encouraging group. There are people from all over the place. They have such great ideas and suggestions. Some are doing points plus, others are doing simply filling, and others are following even older WW programs.

How do you find the group on Facebook that CJ referred to?

I am trouble by the fact that a person would get on here and chastise those of us who prefer points plus. Folks who like smart points are no better than we are. We all have a right to free choice. Thanks.

Thanks, Shelley.

I was going to guys must be a blast at parties. Do you lecture the overweight women who attend saying, "You really shouldn't be eating that."

Shelley, that was another reason I quit WW after being lifetime since '85! People on their website and feeds would go on and on about how great SP is. Mind you, they'd only been on the program for 3-4 weeks! And I'm sure it is ok for some. I'm thrilled for them. But for me, IT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE! They'd say, "Stop whining" and "Sweets aren't healthy."

Well no sh**? We all know that sugar's not good for you. However, most of us have learned that a little sweet treat every now and then is how we've managed to Stick with the program. I lost 45 pounds on PP. When SP rolled in I couldn't do it. I tried so hard.

No more. I'm sticking with PP!

Join our group on fb

Type in:

Weight Watchers Points Plus (pro points) -no smart points

I was a member during Points Plus, ans it really worked for me. Smart Points was really hard to follow. I was loosing weight with Points Plus, and lost all interest with Smart Points. I still follow Points Plus on my own, since I have all the materials. I just act like nothing changed and continue loosing weight.

Wendy, there are many WWPP Facebook sites. The 1st one is WWPP Recipes.

Which one are you referring to? What is the icon picture?

Weight Watchers preaches about how bad sugar and fat are. Then why do they keep selling all of those mini bars?

Snack Girl, how do I get off notifications about this string? The comments are getting silly. You can find an excuse for anything you don't want to do, and I'm a little tired of these excuses. It's all about choices, and I'm making the choice to exit this discussion, but I don't want to unsubscribe to your site. Thank you.

I like new SP program. I am doing it on line. I have been WW member

since early 80's. Highest weight was 193 and I am now at 149. Iam not doing sweets, mostly fruits for sweets or peanut butter. I think WW is a healthy approach to weight control. even when I go off program I rarely gain much because some things are ingrained in my mind and I reach for better choices.

I hope this link works. This is for the PP group Kim

I'm SO grateful that WW switched to SP. I really disliked the old system because I felt it encouraged people to eat processed foods & crap. I know that vegetables, fruits, protein -- portion controlled, and good fat are the best things to eat. Calories need to be restricted and most obese people have issues with insulin receptors. So, bottom-line, this system supports what I know is the best way to eat for lose weight. It's not too restrictive or unsustainable. I tried to lose weight eating good fats, protein, vegetables and low sugar and without portion control of highly caloric items, it didn't work.

I joined weight watchers before and didn't lose weight even eating within my point allowance. This time with smartpoints the weight is dropping like crazy. I joined because diabetes and heart disease run in my family like crazy. My brother had a heart attack at 37. The low sugar, low fat, high protein foods is exactly what I needed. I found clean eating recipes for desserts that are delicious. Now when I think about eating something sweet from before I almost feel nauseous because that stuff is too sweet. I am so thankful for smartpoints.

SP too restrictive! I lost weight on the PP program but I have not been successful with SP program. I am a very picky eater and I could still eat on PP but there are not many options on the SP program. It is MUCH harder or me to do and I have tried it twice and just quit for the second time. I lost very little weight with SP and would gain it back just as fast. I would lose 1# and the next week I Would Gain It back. Just don't like it at all.

I went to WW and lost over 40 lbs and became a life time member using the Points Plus. The weight came off and I didn't feel I was on A diet. I could go out to restaurants. I could eat a snack I like at night because the points allowed it. I went back to WW last year because over the years my weight crept up. They were using PP. I was able to get into a groove and the LBS came off. Then they changed to SP. I wound up not being able to handle it. I couldn't go to restaurants because the diet has gotten so strict.It felt very defeating. I took off the summer of course gaining more weight. Very depressing. I rejoined in the fall but again found it too limited. It felt like the WW diet back in the 90s when it was so restrictive. Yes you were eating healthy but way to restrictive to call that a way of life. I had to quit again because it was way to expensive to go and not stick to it. I hope someday soon they go back to the pp plan.

i wish WW would offer pp as an option. Wish they would understand by now that offering people three options is not going to hurt them only help them.Ive been ww since the 1970s got to goal. Loved pp could not stand sp. I have a bkgrnd in nutrition and sp says diet to me I dont care what they say. I would love to go bk to ww but not with how they feel about pp.

Go to WW POINTS PLUS on Facebook and join a group of committed PP members. It's free and very supportive.

Thank you so much for the discussion. You just saved me time, money and frustration.

I was on weight watchers a few years back and remember having 26 points. My husband just joined the new system and told me his points dropped and the amount for foods are higher. Will my points drop? I am not certain how I'd follow if it did, 26 was hard.

Laure, with the newer SmartPoints WW program, 30 points is the absolutely lowest amount of points per day that you will get. Depending on your weight when you join, it could be more than that at first, but as you lose, it will gradually go down, but never lower than 30. The weekly points will be less. They used to be 49 for everyone. Now, it is less, but it depends on your height and weight. Some foods have gone up in points -- sugar and fat will determine that. Processed foods and sugary treats will have a higher point value. But some foods have gone down in points -- mostly the protein, chicken, turkey, fish. I love the new SmartPoints program -- healthier eating. Good luck to you and your husband.

When Weight Watchers changed to Smart Points I was very unhappy! In the beginning I hated Smart Points because my favorite treats went up in points! However, I am open minded and I understood that Weight Watchers was designing the Smart Points on nutrition science. Sugar and saturated fat are associated with obesity and many other health conditions, so I was willing to give it a try. What I found was Smart Points really helped me to be more aware of the hidden sugar I was eating. It helped me to lose the weight I needed and it taught me to truly eat healthy for life! Let's not fool ourselves, if you are really serious about your health and achieving a healthy weight you can maintain for life, you will not get there by eating foods high in sugar and saturated fat! Smart Points really is Smart because it guides you there and yes, in order to have the good stuff in life there is always some small sacrifices that must be made. I am a Weight Watcher Life Time member and I have maintained my weight now for over a year!

The claim is that people have lost more weight in the first 2 weeks on the new plan...faster, not more. WW has seemingly abandoned the "balanced" philosophy and adopted, and hopped on, the commercially popular "no sugar" bandwagon. This always happens when Oprah gets involved. It was a superficial move and it's dissappointing. I successfully made it to goal weight on the previous plan and learned a lot. I'll continue with what I know works. If they thought we were bored with the plan they should have taken a look at manipulating the fitness part of the plan.

I'm very glad I found these comments. I was a member of weight watchers years ago and was thinking of rejoining. But after reading all of these comments I truly question if I should rejoin or just use the old cookbooks and recipes I already have. Hubby and I have never been much of a sweets eaters. But we do like to have a glass of wine and or cocktail at night. What sort of concerns me are the people that have actually gained weight on the new system. So here comes the age old question. Can I just count calories? Or do I really need to know what those calories are made up of in order to lose weight. :(

I'm going to start out by saying that about a year ago, my office brought in a nutritionist and we could join a 12-day sugar detox. I learned a lot about sugar and I did the sugar detox. I felt great but, what I could eat was limited. Also, what we could eat, we could eat as much of as we wanted. After all, this wasn't a diet, it was a detox. I ended up gaining 3 pounds but learned a lot from it. I agree that sugar is not good for us, but unless you are someone who already eats healthily, it's hard to just stop eating it. I also agree with WW's old philosophy -- eat EVERYTHING in moderation. As much as I was opposed to it, I needed to do something so I started the new WW plan. I'm not dumb, I know how to eat healthily -- I just choose not to do it! My first trip to the grocery store started in the fruits and veggie section. I loaded up on all the good stuff. As I was making my way through the grocery store, I had to get some snack items for my husband. In the cracker isle, I looked at the crackers I ate on the old system and was shocked at how many points they now had. I found that to be the case with most of the pre-packaged, processed foods. Trust me, I KNOW that those foods aren't good for you. But, when I need to lose over 100 pounds, I can't go from eating like crap to only eating veggies, lean protein and fruits. I loved being able to have some baked chips, fiber one bars, etc. on the old plans. Now I can't really fit those into my day. Yes, I could use my weekly points, but I may be saving those for a special occasion. That's why you lose points as you lose weight. You lose most of the cravings and once you lose enough points, you are ready to say, "Hey, instead of baked lays, I'll have carrots for my snack today." My first week was horrible -- in the past, my first week was always great. I didn't really have cravings in the past and because I do weigh so much, I could easily lose up to 10 pounds the first week (mostly water weight). This time, I lost 2 pounds my first week and I had so many cravings which made it hard for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that I did lose 2 pounds, but I'm not happy with the way I felt all week. I guess to sum up my rambling, WW used to teach you that you have so many points and you can eat whatever you'd like as long as you stay within those points every day. If you want to eat ice cream all day, you can do that, but don't go over your points. They also taught you that hey, you really should be eating something healthier than ice cream and they taught you what you "should" be eating. I'm still going to give this Smart Points a go, but I'm already starting to want to give up and go out and eat a bunch of processed food!!



I'm glad you are giving the new WW program a try. Seems to me that all the overweight people who prefer the old program have proven EATING ANYTHING YOU WANT even in moderation keeps you overweight because they are back on the program AGAIN.You need to change your mind and lifestyle or you'll be back!!!!! Get the latest info and submit yourself to it OR STAY ON THE MERRY-GO-ROUND!!!!!!

I was on the points plus and lost 40 lbs. when they changed to Smart points I would get so. Disgusted that I knew I was bad. I started gaining finally I quit and since gained all the weight back. I was a true believer in WW but now I don't know what to do. I want to lose but and I know that strict diet is not for me. It used to feel like they taught me a new way of eating not dieting. Now it's a diet. No way to get around it. You can only take that strict rating for so long then what. Opera says I can eat bread. Now a cracker even blows your points for the day. I like begatables but not all the time.

I'm definitely not an expert on weight watchers but the sp are working great for me and a lot of my friends. It's a very live able approach to weight loss. It's taught me healthier choices and moderation and self discipline. And also how to be creative and cook for my family. Just had 2 sugar free fudgsicles for a late night snack for only 3 sp. My grandkids even like these. I can go eat out and still enjoy my food and I occasionally eat dessert but I don't crave the sugar anymore and I feel 100% better. I guess it's just what works for us, and my family is learning to make smarter choices now, which I love! My children and grandchildren will be healthier and learn good choices now and in the future.

I am so disappointed with the program that I haven't bothered going for months! I have now gained back nearly all the weight I lost 17 years ago! They keep on twicking every program! Now they've taken my right to choose what I want to eat and replaced it with diet foods and no chance of eating foods I enjoy! I can't find the slide or hardly any information from the program I use to do when I first began. Sooo, sad to say, I'm unhealthy again because I just can't figure it out anymore. What a waste of my money last year!!!

Most of you who favor old WW program complain about the strictness of the new program and in the same breath tell how you've gained weight back. THAT IS NOT A SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM. You need a change in your diet, a new way to eat FOR LIFE. You are making it a diet by thinking a couple of months eating this way will lose the weight, then back to my normal eating. Thats what made you overweight, again!

There's an awful lot of mean-spirited fat shaming on this feed. Many (me included) were doing GREAT until the smart points program was released THANKSGIVING WEEKEND! What were they thinking? I don't care that it's always been when WW releases new programs. Maybe, just maybe they need to rethink that one! How about the first of the year or springtime?

The holidays are difficult enough. Many of us were in the zone. We didn't gain because of PP, we gained because WW threw us all under the bus at the most DIFFICULT time of year. The website didn't work for months. The entire rollout was an epic fail. THAT's why so many gained the weight back. Those who are shaming others for gaining the weight back, due to weakness and poor eating habits need to beware. Come back in a year or two and let us know if SP changed your life. I hope so, but you never know; you just may be struggling too. We're supposed to support and encourage, not scold and lay the guilt trip on each other.

I have written before, but simply can't ignore this past comment and others. I am detecting an attitude of arrogance and holier than thou from some supporters of the new smart points plan. First we are all individuals. It is not one size fits all. The rest of us aren't jerks because we prefer points plus, and remember those of you who get on here and lecture and chastise us aren't perfect either. What ever happened to compassion. This kind of arrogance is really hurtful. So good luck to all of you, especially those of you who like me are in favor of points plus. Those of uwho are blind or visually impaired really have something to be upset about. The WW website isn't even accessible for speech screen readers.s

Bonnie, you say you’re not much of a sweet eater but start noticing how many other things have sugar—not just sweets. Jen, I agree the “old” WW didn’t allow you to eat ice cream all day as long as you stayed within your point range. The one good thing they used to do was to make sure you were always aware of a balanced eating program. They even had trackers that helped you to make sure you got in all the foods and water you needed to be balanced. They used to really help you to lose weight sensibly. Now by so severely limiting your sugar, they are more like a strict diet that leads to feeling deprived and eventually giving in to cravings. I know sugar is not our friend but you can eat a healthy, satisfying menu without treating it like a monster and still lose weight—just use MODERATION! If WW was REALLY interested in helping us, maybe they would make their products sold in stores healthier (i.e. check the sodium, etc ) A lot of us used them when we needed a quick meal. I’ve been with WW for more than 20 years, maintaining my goal weight for 15 years until a serious health problem caused me to regain some weight. With this new program, I began gaining even more and I know from all those past years that this will not be the answer for me and I am going to have to try something else. As an after thought, I also agree that there is a holier than thou attitude by some and I would caution those people. Having been going to meetings EVERY week for more than 20 years I have see many, many get real excited in the beginning only to drop out when it began to get hard or when they decided they could do it on their own. Given time, they would return with a more realistic attitude along with weight gained back. This is a life long fight and we need to support one another regardless of which plan works for us. I only wish we still had access to all the programs offered over the years and we could all stay with what worked for us.


Why only well known well to do representatives for ww? They dont have to sho

p or cook or even time their meals. They don't llearn about.

the program they just shovel in the food because someone else is doing all the work for them. Exercise. They have personal trainers. Those are luxurys 99 percent of your members can't afford. Where is the learning process? Why cant real life represent you? For an example I'll use myself.I am a young 72 with what I hope is a temporary disability that extremely limits my exercise choices. I now weigh over 250lbs due to my spinal disability and almost 2 years in a wheel chair. When ch was directly after losing 50lbs on ww.I had also walked a 5k. I was very proud of how I looked and especially my commitment and my accomplishments. The 5k walk was actually 3.3 miles.I came in dead last..but I came in. I have no car so I have to find a daytime meeting that would fit in with our local connector bus, but yes I'm joining again. I do it because its necessary for my health and I need that commitment and support.The point is that I am a real person that has to confront this challenge without the cooks and the planners and the shoppers and the housekeepers etc. Plus I'm 72 an age it has been harder to lose weight so its been said..and my disability allows for only 3 exercises laying on the bed. I know what youre thinking and some days I can only say I wish. But seriously these are real people challenges. Challenges I dont believe any of your well known reps evet had to face. What cant be accomplished when someone else is doing it for you. You would encourage so many more people if your reps were real people struggling just like them. Thats my opinion.Happy success to. evetyone. Today will never be yours again so use it to try your hardest at whatever you want to succeed in..and you will. Just is the tomorrow you worried about dont worry youll succeed. I will too. It may take me longer,but I will succeed. Now off to find a meeting in Rock Hill S.C. Have a blessed journey.

I lost about 40 pounds on PP, before quitting WW, and regaining. Rejoining with SP, I've had faster success, but it's definitely more restrictive.

I have been a Weight Watchers Lifetime member since 1999. Now, a lot of people like to say that they are "Lifetime Members" because they don't technically ever take that status away from you, but I have been Lifetime "at goal" for most of all of these years. This is the hardest part because they only allow you to be two pounds over (which I have always thought to be ridiculous given women's fluctuations due to hormones, etc.). They have made changes several times over all these years and I never had much of a problem adapting to them until last year when they completely changed the program. I HATE it now. I am a strictly by the book person and have kept food journals since 1999. I do not have a problem with "rules". I just think the change from PointsPlus to SmartPoints was too drastic. I had been doing the program for so long I had so many things memorized and had oodles of cookbooks, etc. Even my leader (same one all these years) just can't seem to part with her cookbooks which are of no use now since they don't include the sugar content. I agree with most on here. A change where the points of so many things actually double is just stupid. I've had people say since the other plan worked for them they will just continue on it, but eventually all your materials will be so obsolete. Also, I have gone to my monthly meetings all these years and it really is fruitless to do that if you're sitting there listening to everything about the new program but are still utilizing the old one. I am so frustrated I have quit going. I still keep a food journal, exercise and watch what I eat but I actually miss going. There is a site on Facebook of members supporting the old program and I joined it for a while but felt there was really no point to it because everyone was just complaining and I was receiving countless notifications of new posts. At this point I don't know what to do. I like Oprah, but every time I see her commercial talking about how she can now eat everything, even chips and bread, I just want to scream at the TV that yea, you can do this but with the new program the points are so elevated that's about ALL you can eat for the day!

Thanks for the info!

I have been doing SP a week. Down 4 pounds. I love this program. If you have tried the 21 day fix and other diet programs and compare them to this ww is the bomb. I was in such a funk, Thank god I found this program. I am now a committed lifer. FYI ladies you can have the treat just cut it in half or a 1/4. Thats what i do. It helps. By the way I can have a sandwich with two pieces of bread...oh thank you lord!! lol

I am glad the new program is working for some people, but I still say there are a lot of members who do not like it. I am truly a conformist by nature, but I just do not think these new changes were absolutely necessary. You know the old saying "If it ain't broke then don't fix it"? I think the powers at be decided to "mix things up" because the popularity of Weight Watchers has been on the downslide since there are so many apps out there now where you do not have to pay fees, have weigh-ins, etc. Well, I have been loyal to Weight Watchers all these years and I have to say I never see anyone in the meetings from when I first started way back in 1999. I still go to the same leader on the same one of two days of the week. I think the reason for this is the hardest part is KEEPING the weight off, which is what I have been doing and just trying to maintain. It's exciting to hear someone say they lost four pounds in a week (which usually happens in those with greater amounts of weight to be lost) but it's SO hard to keep your weight within two measly pounds for YEARS! I once had to pay when I was a 1/2 pound over! Another frustrating thing is EVERY time they make these changes you have to buy all new materials -- an advantage for WW but not so much for us members.

I agree with how difficult it is to stay within the 2 lbs. of goal weight. I started back at WW 18 years ago. Became Lifetime. Yet I am suppose to stay at the SAME weight! I'm now in my early 70s and retired. I Jazzercised then and currently attend 4x a week. I think we should be able to readjust that number! The SP program is healthy. But how many times has the program changed but they won't change what your weight should be???? Plus,the lines to Weigh are so long and the online is always having problems. WW needs to reevaluate. Maybe do a survey with Lifetimers?

I have been a faithful WW member since the early 90s. I reached Lifetime status in '96 and maintained a 75lb. loss for 15 years until a serious health situation threw me off the rails. I adjusted to all the many changes in programs over the years so I never anticipated a problem when I returned. Having gained and having to pay again was not pleasant but I was ready to take on the challenge. The new program WAS AND CONTINUES TO BE HORRIBLE and I finally have to admit that WW is no longer my place to go for help and support--they are not listening! While I love that Oprah can eat everything she wants to, I have heard her say that on every weight loss program she has endorsed over the years until she gains again and goes on to still another program. I also love that there are newbies coming on and getting excited about losing so much in their 1st week. Over the years, I have seen the excitement die quickly when the water weight is gone and the hard work begins and they give up. It might be a good idea for WW to start paying attention to those of us who have been going faithfully to 1 or more meeting every single week for years, have worked hard to become Lifetime and even harder to MAINTAIN! We have adjusted to so many changes over the years and when we say you've made a big mistake this time, maybe you might reevaluate?

I'm glad that people who have been on the program for a week are doing well. That's what we all hope for. However, I was on Points Plus for a few YEARS, and it worked. Then WW decided to delete ALL my saved recipes and favorite food lists when they switched to Smart Points with NO warning. It was a mess. The website and app didn't work for months, but I gave the new program EVERYTHING I had and tried so hard to make the change. And this all came about Thanksgiving weekend!! The program just doesn't work for me! All of the sudden I was hungry, and foods that I had eaten for years were double the points. After years of faithfully following the plan, it no longer works for me.

Oh it's ok for a few weeks, but then I get hungry and feel terribly deprived. That never happened with Points Plus.

I don't wish anyone to fail, but be careful. You can do anything for a few weeks. The problem is it is not sustainable and catches up to you. WW is just a diet now and certainly not realistic for an extended amount of time.

Sue, you definitely can change your goal weight. Talk to the people at the scale or your leader. It is up to you and your doctor what your goal weight should be, not WW. Are you within the healthy range that WW suggests? You most likely are. I am 5-3 and the highest weight for me according to WW is 141. So that was my goal weight. I like to stay around 130 pounds. That is my personal goal. But WW has it in their computer that my goal weight is 141. If I wanted to have my goal weight higher than the 141, I think all you need is a doctor note saying whatever number it is and they will honor it.

It seems most of us "Lifetimers" very much agree about the SmartPoints program. They should listen to us! I want to address the comment made by Linda about your goal weight. The stipulations for this has changed some over the years. Years ago someone in my first meeting gave me a tip (she didn't continue coming like I did) that really helped. She was a nurse and she told me to set my goal at the highest point even though at that time I was aghast at that number. She advised this due to the fact that Weight Watchers normally only lets you change your goal weight once (and this is with a Doctor's note). It's a good thing I took her advice because little did I know that all these years later (18) I sometimes struggle to keep my weight within two pounds of that highest amount. A lot happens to your body in that amount of years. There are hormone changes, menopause, etc. Also, way back then I even got down to nine pounds below my goal. This is strictly not allowed anymore (this came from my Leader). Not that I think I'll EVER get to that point again but, WW does not allow this anymore. I can't remember exactly but if you fall a very short amount below your goal you can actually be reprimanded or even asked to leave the program. One member said "If only I would have that problem". Believe me, it's not that easy to get your goal weight changed. If it was there would probably be hundreds of members (especially after the change in the program last year) who would be doing this!

I found this site as I was searching for old PP materials online. I'm a lifetime member (8 lbs over goal weight right now) who has struggled with the new SP system. For me it is unsustainable as it is too restrictive with fat and especially sugar. Restrictive diets are a trigger for binge eating behaviors and I've noticed an increase in my binge behaviors this past year. Many people, like myself, who struggle with unhealthy eating behaviors (eating less than healthy food, eating too much food) need a structured plan that *slowly* moves them toward healthier eating in small steps; SP does not allow for making small changes - it is a big leap toward no sugar and is just not doable for many of us. I loved that PP allowed me a small piece of chocolate every night! And that's why I will be returning to PP. I bought a PP calculator online and will track on my own. I hope that WW eventually moves back toward moderation as I will miss my leader and the meetings.

I lost 100 pounds on the old weight watchers program and kept it off for the past 4 years. I returned one month ago to lose another 50 pounds. I've been gaining and losing the same 5 pounds for four weeks. I just can't stand how restrictive this new plan is. I get so hungry and frustrated because they increased the points on many of the things I ate on the old plan to lose the 100 pounds! Why is a can of fat free chili 14 points when it used to be 8 points on the old plan! So many foods are like that. I finally decided to download the myfitness pal app from the itunes store and started counting calories. Now I eat what I want, control my portions, and stay within the calorie limit for the day. That sounds a lot like the old Weight Watchers plan.

I wanted to respond to Debra's comment about changing your goal weight. Maybe it depends on your leader/meeting place, et cetera, but at my meeting place, they will work with you about changing your goal weight. I am 11 pounds under my goal. Only once did a receptionist comment to me that I "might want to lower my goal weight." I said that I absolutely did not want to change my goal weight. I have never actually seen her again -- I do not believe she works there any longer. Two pounds I believe is ridiculous -- you can wear different clothes and have an extra cup of coffee and be up three pounds -- at least I can. I do like the 11 pounds leeway I have. As long as you are within the healthy weight range, it should not be a problem.

Linda, I only know what I have learned from being a Lifetime Weight Watchers member at goal since 1999. Like I mentioned, I have had the same leader for all of these years. She is awesome and knows the programs ins and outs. She still remembers the first day I ever walked into Weight Watchers. At the location I attend (or attended since I am boycotting the SP program because I HATE it) we have had the same receptionist for years and my Leader also does weigh ins and I always get in her line. Again, my point is if it was that easy for everyone to go get their goal weight changed when they struggle everyone would be doing this. For a brief time I actually worked at the Weight Watchers corporate office in my town. They seek out Lifetime members at goal to work for them. Immediately I regretted my decision to work there. It was like being in Weight Watcher's jail! I know that Leaders have a little more leeway insofar as their weight goes, but no matter how many years you have been a Leader they are very strict about your goal weight and being over that. I am close with my Leader and I actually feel that even she doesn't care too much for the new program, even though she can't come out and say it. Like several on here I actually loved the PP program I was on for years.

I just started ww last week. I was using calulator at first then i went to use app that has been a nitemare its confusing not much to it compared to some apps other people had on utube. I lost weight my first week but doing on line you get very little help getting started im very frustrated already not sure what im going to too hate this new plan as well.

Simply Filling, SP, PP, whatever. If you lost n one of WW programs just continue to follow it. Everyone still has the literature. You still are the one in control.

Cricket, I don't know if I would "hate" it as much if I didn't have something to compare it to. Having followed WW for so many years, I just think in comparison the new SP program is inferior to the PointsPlus. Even after all this time I still use my calculator. I hear all these other members talking of using the App. I guess I'm just a creature of habit. I also hear of all the complications, problems with paying for it, etc. Being a Lifetime member at goal I can actually get it for free, but there are a lot of stipulations and since I'm not going to meetings right now because I'm not happy with the program, I can't get the card from them that you have to get every eight weeks to renew the free App (it has a code on it). I am not a quitter and this is what irritates me because my dislike for the new program is causing me to not want anything to do with it.

I agree. I could use the old literature to lose weight at weight watchers but that defeats the purpose of paying for their plan. I left Weight Watchers and switched to Fitbit and tracking on MyFitnessPal app and lost 6 pounds already. I think free fruit on Weight Watchers was likely slowing my weight loss progress. How can fruit be 'free'? It has a lot of calories.

I'm also a WW lifetime member and was considering going back but wanted a review on the new program. I lost the most weight and felt my best on their Core plan. Sadly they did away with that plan very quickly. I think I'll just stick with what I know and eat healthy clean foods.

I was on the SS plan and I am now on the SP plan.. I LOVE the SP!!

I am able to eat foods now that used to cost me so many points in the past that I was not able to enjoy them. I find myself ENJOYING fresh foods and AVOIDING premade prepackaged foods. I am paying attention to what I am eating better as I am more able to decide what I feel is worth the time of eating it.

I am a snacker and I have overcome that part of me and now I am able to make better choices. I do not find the SP program at all restrictive. In fact,our grocery bill has went DOWN.

I love the meeting I go to, and I go just to enjoy the "family time" feel. WW is a business, but I have not one time felt like I was being "sold" anything.

I think that it all depends on your leader of the meetings. I have an AMAZING leader and we all have the best time and really do treat each other like family.

WW is not a DIET. It is a plan to help teach you better eating habits.

I love it!!

Adriana, I was thinking I had commented on your post but maybe I didn't. Even though WW doesn't have what they refer to as th "Core" Plan anymore you can still essentially follow that same Plan if you want to even with the new SP Plan. In your materials you will see the No-count option (or an alternative to tracking). As long as you eat only from the list you are essentially doing the old Core Program. It never worked for me because I found it too limited in that it was hard to eat multi-ingredient type foods such as casseroles, etc. and also eating out was harder but you might be glad to know you can still do it if you want to. I also wanted to address Shelley's comments. I think you may of had a typo when you compared "SS" to SP. The program before was PointsPlus and there is no way that anything on the SmartPoints Plan is less points. In very many cases it actually is double the points on a lot of foods. This is why there has been so much negativity surrounding it, especially with Lifetime members who have been in the program for many, many years and know what a challenge it is to maintain your weight within two pounds of your goal weight. I appreciate the somewhat limited enthusiasm of new members who really have nothing to compare it to and have no way of knowing how they will feel many years from now. As I have stated on here before, I have had the same Leader since 1999 and she is awesome. A lot of members have said that WW changes everything every few years so we have to buy all new materials, but I try not to think that way.

The plan without points tracking is now called Simply Filling.

Smart Points track with science on weight loss. The old plan encouraged high sugar / low fat options. That has been totally discredited as a healthy weight-loss strategy that has sky-rocketed diabetes in this country. WW seems to change program as weight loss science progresses. That's a less cynical way to look at the changes.

Thank you for your input. I am working on just counting calories on an app and working out. I don't think I could follow the old core plan. I find it way too limiting as well. I've canceled my weight watchers membership and will continue with my new approach. I'm sad that weight watchers decided to double the points on many things. I'm sure that old members like me are very dissatisfied with that decision.

I am super thrilled that most veggies and all fruit is zero points now and I can actually enjoy shrimp and fish.

I am also thrilled that snacks are higher in points. I am a huge snack addict and this has completely helped me.

I actually have a harder time using up my points.

But that's me. I have lost 21.8 pounds in nine weeks and still dropping.


I've been a WW Lifetimer for 18 years. My concern is why do they weigh everyone in the front of the location. The lines go out the door,you hear each person's business as to loss/gain,computers go down and then you miss some or all of the meeting. It's to the point where I only go 1-2x a month and that's not good for me to,stay on program. I'm very close to quitting. Why can't we get weighed in the individual booths again? Or have an option? WW needs to listen to their customers!!!!!!!

I am sorry you are not enjoying your experience.

The place I go to had little cubicle type areas where we weigh in at. There are nice sized restrooms to change in if you want to wear something less that the heavy clothes you walked in wearing.

Ours are at the front of the store as well and it can get crowded if everyone shows up as soon as the doors open.

I can't say I can hear what other folks weigh as I do not pay attention. However ours leaders do not speak that part if you do not want. They just write it down and log it and show you. They always ask you up front if you want it kept quiet or not as well.

For me, I do not care if everyone knows, so I just talk openly about everything going on. I am extremely open during the meeting. I thought that is what they were for.

I so wish you were having a better experience. My heart feels for you. ((Hug))

Agree totally with Diane and Sue. Again, for those of us who have been in the program for years, doubling points on items is a little hard to swallow (no pun intended). Sue, also liked the more private weigh-ins -- WH wouldn't? Shelly, fish has always been a lower point choice. All my life I've eaten a lot of fish ( not as part of a "diet" -- just love it). Fortunately I haven't had the problem overindulging in snacks, not because I don't like them, but I'd rather have food so greatly increasing the points on snacks doesn't help me in any way. I'm happy you have had success with the new program and hope you can keep it up in the long term. Katthewolf, I don't really feel I'm cynical about the drastic changes, just realistic. In the past 17 years I've been Lifetime I've been their biggest cheerleader most of the time (until now) and have been very loyal. I worked in hair salons for 20 years and interacted with many clients so always preached the benefits of WW. It's clear on here that those of us that have something to compare it to long term are the most unhappy with the changes.

Disagree with Katthewolf. Sugar as the problem does NOT track with *real* science. This area is one ripe with junk scientific studies, all of which confirm whatever the fad diet of the day says. I feel WW is pandering to the crowd in this sense too. At some meeti gs I've had to speak up after members begin a discussion about how "bad" diet soda is - and had to point out that diet soda is perfectly "on plan"!

People who struggle with weight loss often do so because they are obsessed with food. It's not healthy or helpful to turn that obsession into ANY form of militant dietism. It's just the flipside of the coin and one which will not lead to overall health or happiness.

I will be going back to meetings for accountability, but no SP for me.

So,what is the reason for weighing up front? They may just write down your weight,but when they ask for $14-15 you know they've gained over 2 lbs! Totally embarrassing! Why has this way of weighing changed? What's the point?

I have had a little different experience in my meetings with talk about Diet Coke. Even though it is empty calories and certainly not the best choice, I have felt for years that WW sometimes encourages lesser caloric (or points)food or drinks no matter how unhealthy it is. I do have a diet drink every so often. I remember hearing a Nutritionist say "always choose calories over chemicals". I brought this up in a meeting and people looked kind of like "what"? I refuse to go to meetings and sit there and listen to everything about SP when I know I'm not complying with it. For the last almost two months I have been doing something you could never do with WW. I have stopped being so hung up with weighing myself. It was really hard at first, but I went almost six weeks and just went by how my clothes fit. My reasoning here was a lot of times when I think I'm doing good and then weigh at home and find out I've gained it completely bums me out. Of course, I feel even worse when I weigh at WW and it's confirmed. I was doing this as an experiment so I waited as long as I could and then decided to weigh. Thank goodness I had lost. It's been a couple of weeks now so I'll wait a little while longer and weigh again. Of course WW totally relies on weighing in continuously and I know many who have dropped out because of it. Seeing those numbers can just ruin your whole day or week! My weight can fluctuate three or four pounds easily depending on what I had to eat the night before, water weight, etc. I've mentioned before that once I had to pay because I was 1/4 of a pound over (I'm Lifetime) which is ridiculous!

Throw away your scale! I have issues with the WW weighs in front! But,I go there to be weighed every Wednesday that I can get there. I weigh in the same outfit and don't eat breakfast before WW. That is why I've stayed a Lifetimer for about 18 years. I feel that's what helps me avoid seeing the ups and downs on the scale at home. I'm in my early 70s and it's been harder staying at goal the last few years.

I am not even close to being lifetime at this time. I am just in a state of somewhat shock over the talks of money and such. I know we have a few in our meeting that was lifetime and is now having to pay, but they shared it on their own. No one outted them.

Seems to me that there are some amazing meetings and some really aweful ones.

Is it odd that my meeting leader has said on more than one occasion that she never chooses an alternative to real butter. She has also said that she avoids chemicals. Diet sodas and most all sugar free stuff is full of aspertain. That stuff is deadly stuff. And all its cousins...

I just feel bad that all y'all are having a bad time.

I called to let them know I was not going to be able to attend meetings due to my surgery and they credited me four weeks of meetings.

I thought that was nice of them.

Sue, you can never throw away your scale if you're doing WW. I have also been Lifetime for 18 years, and for most of those years have been at goal. It would not work for me not to weigh at home to keep on track (except not now because I'm not going to meetings) because I like to know I'm not going to be surprised when I weigh in at a WW meeting. I have had the same Leader all these years and she has been with WW for many more years than I've been coming. She is so strict on herself. For years she talked about not having sweets in her house -- period -- and how tough that was on her kids. When she dines out at even a really upscale restaurant she will have the plainest and most spartan meal they have on their menu. WW is super hard on their Leaders. I remember her saying Leaders would actually do their weigh-ins in shorts in the dead of winter. WW is obsessed with the scale! That's why they only give you two pounds over no matter your age, or Lifetime status and that's why so many never reach Lifetime or, if they do, they aren't able to continue being "free" indefinitely. The main goal of WW is to reach Lifetime, but once you reach it there isn't nearly as much effort put into helping you stay there because, and I'm sorry to say this, that's not where they make their money. They make their money off those that don't ever reach Lifetime.

I agree. Weight Watchers relies on getting new people. There isn't very much support for their long-term members. Also, the scale obsession borders on unhealthy. After years there, I decided to leave. I'm still doing well counting calories in an app and working out on my own.

Ya know.. I had a whole 4 paragraph response to this whole conversation, but... I deleted it.

All I am going to say in a cut down to the root version of that is this...

Reading many posts on this subject makes me super let down.

I find We to be an amazing place to give folks amazing tools and SUPPORT to help folks find their way to a healthier life.

To discourage others is sad and shameful in my opinion.

I read where folks here are hating WW but these same folks are at goal or reached WWs "lifetime" status. Guess it was good for you, huh?

I am in We and all I want to do is get healthy. I am not in it for "life". And so what if I still have to pay for a meeting.. if I want to go I would rather pay for a meeting than throw it away on something that will just be for not.

Meetings are for support. I am not afraid for any of my meeting group to hear my ups and downs on the scales. That is what a support group is for, and it isn't like no one else there has not had the same problems. I gained a couple pounds and my peeps on my group came together and lifted me UP. Made me see it was not the end of the road and helped me look past the scale and focus on my next steps I set for myself...

Well... That is as short as I could get it.....

Sorry if I hurt feelings, but if others can speak freely and not wonder how words effect others, then I can speak freely and show y'all how they effect others.

I was always taught that if ya dwell in the dark you will lose your light.

Maybe WW isn't perfect, but it did help you get where you are. (Goal or lifetime).

So I guess there is still some light left in that darkness to help pull you forward.

Done rambling

WW is a tool,not your mama,babysitter,or therapist. Its an accountability partner. It provides scientific based health info. They are a successful business that provides a service for a fee. If an old program works better for you do IT, AS LONG AS YOU LOSE WEIGHT and aren't just getting to eat what you want. Be more concerned about your health not just the number on the scale.Lets stop the whining.

Shelley, I cannot speak for others on here, but I certainly by no means have an intention of discouraging anyone. I don't know how long you have been following the WW program, but I have since becoming Lifetime in 1999. Yes, it did work for me for years and years but in life not everything continues to work the same way forever. I stopped going about a year ago after I tried the "new" Plan. Because I am a strictly a by the book kind of person I would feel like a hypocrite if I sat in those meetings, no matter how much I enjoy the fellowship, if I wasn't following the program. I just do not agree with the radical changes from PP to SP, and I know for a fact that I am not along. I always wondered all these years why some people continued to come but didn't appear to be losing weight. I have even sat in meetings and heard some say they really needed to "get back" to tracking. My Leader (same one all these years) used to have me tell the group how I've kept food journals since 1999 and still have every one of them! I never even thought that some may not really let it bother them if they didn't lose much or ever achieved Lifetime, or continued to pay for months because they just enjoyed the support or gathering of their group. As I have stated previously, I was always a cheerleader for WW and had a platform because I worked in a hair salon for 20 years and interacted with hundreds of women. I even at one point was hired by WW and worked in the corporate office location. I am not saying that I will never go back, but this is the longest stretch I've ever stayed away. I am happy for you, and I definitely want to cheer you on in your journey. Since this is not technically a WW blog or site, and there isn't really an outlet connected to WW that you can "vent" on, I think people are just taking advantage of this outlet. Good luck in your weight loss journey. As I have learned, keeping it off is the hardest part because if you don't continue doing the exact same thing it took you to lose (no matter what kind of program) the weight is just going to come right back.

I don't know how anyone can say SP is hard to follow or to restrictive. I didn't know the other program but this is easy to follow and allows me to eat all I want in moderation. I have had nothing but success and don't feel like I'm on a diet - and trust me, I love my food! Wishing everyone luck in their weight loss journey :)

AB, as I have stated on here several times I think it's different if you never followed the PP program. I am glad you don't find the SP program to be restrictive. There have been several program changes since I first went to WW in 1998. I never had trouble changing over until this time. Of course, I have bought tons of materials over the years, many cook books, etc. that are not relevant anymore. Just don't love SP too much and find it too easy because, trust me, there will be changes again at some point and then you might feel differently because, like me, you would have memorized points for so many things. I know it sounds easy to continue doing the PP program, but your materials, aids, etc. would just become so obsolete. I would just feel noncompliant and can't get into the meetings when everyone there are talking about SP and I'm not participating in the program! Like I said before, I am pretty sure a lot of people that have come and gone in my meetings over the years weren't participating in the program (whichever one it was at the time) at all and just liked attending and it didn't bother them to pay for years. There is not one single person in my meetings (have gone on the same one of two days a week since 1998) with the same Leader, that started out with me all those years ago. I have had SO many tell me over the years that they have "rejoined" WW over and over. It's not all that easy to maintain for years no matter what the program is, but I will never give up and I'm sure there are a lot of others that agree with me. Good luck to everyone.

I have joined numerous times gained most of the time ! Was compliant finally changed my diet completely to VEGAN! I love love love it!! I feel better than I have for years lost 11 lbs on 27 days it's so NOT ABOUT THE WEIGHT it's all about WELLNESS!! Bye bye weight watchers I've adopted the Whole food plant based nutrition into my life got into this from Rip Esselstyn! Engine 2. 7 day rescue diet

Everyone on the planet need to see the movie FORKS OVER KNIVES available on Netflix ! Will open many eyes!! I'm not preaching or arguing just says what worked for me !

Congratulations to you, Mel, if you think becoming Vegan is the answer for your weight loss. Not everyone could make such a drastic change and stick with it for years -- which is what you have to do to keep the weight off. This is what I did with WW since 1998 until the Plan changed drastically last year from PP to SP. I've seen so many people try so many weight loss plans over the years (not just WW) and get so excited at first, but I always say keeping it off is the hardest part. I just know the SP Plan is not for me, and I won't be a hypocrite by going to meetings and know I am not following the SP Plan. Good luck to you.

Debra Yes i did not feel it would be fair to continue with W/W since I'm not loosing weight on their plan but Im doing this for my wellness the weight loss is a HUGE BONUS!! One month down and Im getting sooooo creative with my recipes. I am Never hungry eating so much . I have lost 14 lbs thus far I am so glad I made this transition i watched Forks over Knives very eye opening. I am taking a course Cornell University PLANT BASED NUTRITION. I am passionate about this!! Thanks for the reply

To each his.her own. I like Weight Watchers "Beyond the Scale Plan". It has worked for me and many others. I lost 42 lbs. I have been with Weight Watchers since 2009. If you work the plan the plan works. If a quick fix is wanted this is not the plan for you. Slow and steady wins the race. Everything is not for everybody.

I am very curious..why if you have been on WW with the PP and succeeded then why not continue and just go to the meetings for motivation? When you weigh yourself there no one know how and what you are doing. I'm tempted to do just that.


We have a few folks in our meetings that are still using the old plan and they talk about it in the meetings. Our director is good at bouncing back and forth and also informing us when she is referring to current plan or old plan.

I am currently unable to go to meetings as I am still unable to drive. I was in fear of weight gain... Not being able to walk and all... BUT!!!!

I am DOWN 5 pounds!!!!!

That makes over 30 pounds lost from my start date in February 2017!!

Like I've said before, I am a "by the book" kind of person so I would feel like a hypocrite if I were doing PP or something different and just sitting there listening to discussions about SP. I haven't been in a while and, I might be wrong, but I doubt my Leader would spend much discussion time on PP as I know they are pushing SP now. I may change my mind at some point and go back as by that time they probably will have made a lot of other changes. Who knows what the powers at be will decide to do? I've seen Oprah on several shows recently and, although I've always been a fan, it doesn't look to me like she's trimmed down a whole lot on this Plan she says she will "be on for life". That's a pretty bold statement to make when you know lots of people are watching. "Life" is a long time.

Hi Shelley! Congratulations!! You go girl! As for your leader she is a gem! Mine refers to SP and thats all...but would not stop me from going to PP.

Hi Debra! Im in the same boat as you. Our leader is by the book too...but like I said the meetings do have good information and motivation but as per the PP I just have to convert in my when they talk about the SP. :-)

As for Oprah...1) she is an investor in WW she has to promote it or she doesn't make money 2) she filthy rich has cooks and trainers all over the place...she is not real in my eyes...all of us are real ..when I hear you all say yoye down so and so pounds You are the real winner!

I think you're confused. Points Plus was mostly to reduce fat, which you stated at the end of your article that we have found low fat doesn't help anyone lose weight. Points Plus (I've done them both, rejoined to PP in November) focuses on healthier foods overall. Protein is low in points because it helps you stay full. Refined sugars in all their forms has been proven time and again to be unhealthy in weight gain and body health, and to limit them is the key to weight loss as well as having more energy, which leads you to move more, which leads you to lose more. Smart Points was about choosing the foods that were low fat (no hot dogs, Bo bacon, etc., even though you could eat a whole cake made with Sweet N Low, also proven to be unhealthy), veggies, essentially. I find Points Plus to be much easier to follow because less foods are "off limits", therefore it feels less like a diet. You can eat anything, cheese and crackers, a piece of cake, steak, salad, cookies, bananas, peanut butter... but the focus is on healthy "real" foods and portion control. It's a much healthier, easier to follow program. People are just generally resistant to change.

Mandie, you are saying you "rejoined" to PP in November and speak of Points Plus as being easier to follow. It is now SmartPoints and was PP previously. You say that PP is much easier to follow (if you are following the new Plan it is SP)and I don't see how it can be "easier" when a lot of foods actually doubled in points. You say that on the new Plan no foods are "off limits". I've been Lifetime since 1999 and no foods have EVER been off limits with WW -- no matter what Plan, you just have to count them. As I've commented in here before in all those years I have never had a problem with switching and, believe me, there have been plenty of changes. I just do not agree with SmartPoints radical changes. I am a person who constantly reads books on health and nutrition and try to live that way. I just finished The 100 by Jorge Cruise which was excellent. I just never tire of learning more.


Its not really any more restrictive in my opinion.

I think the whole idea of the plan was to teach us how to eat healthier and make better choices.

I am a delighted WW drop-out. I have HAS IT with WW, which, for me was another way to earn money for Oprah( whom I loved) The SPs are ridiculous and if you're not savvy re tablets and other techie items, you'll be lost.

I have been at MY goal-not WW's but my doctor's for over 15 year....and refuse to pay them one more red cent. Read the labels on their products...and you'll see why. Get out--while you can.

Jane, it's not that the new program is more "restrictive" insofar as with WW it's always been that you can choose whatever foods you wish as long as you count them. The problem is, now when you "count" them many items have doubled in points. Now, you may say this "encourages" you to make better choices. In my case I have always been an "everything in moderation" person. This is why I have been Lifetime since 1999. I had the points of SO many things memorized and it had worked for me for so many years. I just truly believe that WW had to "shake things up" because so many are turning to free Apps and programs where they do not have to buy all these materials, have weigh-ins, etc. That's when they brought Oprah on board and made radical changes in the program. They needed to generate more revenue and you can't very well do that unless you make it necessary for everyone to buy all new materials that support a new program. Take someone like myself who hardly ever had need to buy new materials. While I have always been a fan of Oprah, I have seen her on many programs recently and she doesn't appear to be losing a lot of weight considering it's been a year. I have personally heard her say how she eats very little at breakfast and lunch in order to save her points for dinner. She boasts about being able to have "chips" and "bread" which you could always have.

I am a lifetime weight watcher and I have done all the plans and I think this is by far the best -smart points is the easiest plan to follow. I don't feel deprived at all. I make smart choices eat more fruit and veggies instead of junk. I think it's awesome !!!!

I hate the smartpoint system. In four weeks it has made me feel very ill. For the past week and a half I've had a constant headache and extreme craving for carbs, like as if I'm starving type of cravings. I keep getting weaker and less able to think clearly which is affecting my work. And tonight when I laid down to sleep I was so dizzy, that every time I start to relax into sleep the room starts spinning and I have to open my eyes to stop it. I am quitting Weight Watchers as of today. I can't put myself through it anymore. The last time I was this sick from a diet was in the 1980s when liquid shake diets were all the craze. I saw stars and nearly fainted. I'm just a few steps away from that with this diet too. I'm having a very bad reaction to his program. I think the ketogenics people call it a reactice hypoglycemic reaction but I'm not sure. All I know is I need to get well again.

Mary, I am sorry for your experience! It sounds like you might of not been eating enough. Even though I do not care for the SP Program, I have never in all the years since I became Lifetime in 1999 had that kind of reaction. Maybe you are hypoglycemic. Your Doctor can test you for that. Just because I have done WW doesn't mean I never had any carbs. Like I've said before, you can have whatever as long as you count it. I never ate many of the WW snacks because I would rather have food. My problem with the SP program, and this is the reason I do not find it EASY to follow, is that take for instance the Dining Out book which I bought because all my PP materials are no longer applicable. We eat out quite a bit as, in fact, my husband works in the corporate end of the restaurant industry. Practically all of the calorie counts in that book (which even leaves out many restaurants included in the other book) have doubled or close to it. Now, some may say this is to encourage "healthier choices". The vast majority of the time I am choosing what any other weight loss program would classify as healthy choices. I am a big fish eater and do not care for fried foods. It's just ridiculous how the point count even on a grilled chicken salad has increased so much. This is why it frustrated me to such a degree that I have discontinued going to my meetings. I still have my PP calculator and at first I was calculating points on both PP and SP and it was just depressing. A few things remained the same, but by and large everything increased a lot. I read many books on health and nutrition and you will find many references to the fact that WW allows fruit to be "free". There is a great debate about this as WW says this is to "encourage" people to eat more fruit. Even my Leader told me she sometimes eats three bananas per day. Even though fruit contains what a lot of people call "natural sugar" it still has calories and can spike your insulin level. This is why most nutritionists and health professionals do not support eating all you want because it is "free". Personally, I never did this but I know others who did because they didn't have to count it.

Thank you for commenting Debra, you hit on several important points. I believe the Smart Points program encourages a person limit their carbs by the high points given to food with any sugars, and very low points to meat products. This is a real detriment for a vegetarian or vegan like myself. Everything I eat (apart from whole fruit and veg) costs me more SmartPoints than my friends who eat meat.

For example, with SmartPoints I could choose to have 1 tsp of sugar in an herbal tea for breakfast and it would cost me 1 point (16 cal) plus half a cantelope (53 cal) = 69 cal.

However my friend could have a packet of Oberto Natural Beef Jerkey for 1 point (60 cal) or half of a Slim Jim for 0 points (40 cal) with half a cantelope (53 cal) = 93-113 cal.

If I choose to drink an 8 oz kombucha, a natural probiotic drink it will cost me 2 points (30 cal) with a big apple and lettuce salad (103 cal) =133 cal.

If my friend chooses to eat 4 slices of Applegate Uncured Turkey Bacon it will cost her 2 points (140 cal) with a big apple and lettuce salad (103 cal) = 243 cal.

Multiply the difference in what I would choose to eat and drink with my friends choices. It is not only possible, but likely, that she will eat twice as many calories as I will in one day.

After three weeks I was experiencing extreme hunger, extreme carb cravings, and when I searched my symptoms on google, I was first brought to the Atkins Diet site, then the Ketogenics site. The Ketogenics site described my symptoms as "reactive hypoglycemia". I think you were very smart to guess that.

Yes I think its likely I had reactive hypoglycemia, but I'm not going to a doctor yet. What I'm doing first is 1.modify the WW diet, I've changed my settings to say I am partially nursing and that gives me 6 points more per day to spend. (If I say I'm fully nursing it will give me 22 more points per day. )

If I continue to have symptoms of reactive hypoglycemia then I will do as one of the commenters on here have suggested. I downloaded the iTrackBites app and I will go back to follwing the PlusPoints program because I did really well following that program several years ago.

Wish me luck. The WW SmartPoints program is very difficulft for vegans and vegetarians, and to be honest I suspect quite a few omnivores are going to end up with gallstones too.

So many people who LOVED PP could not keep the weight they lost off. This is because sugar is the culprit in both obesity and diabetes. The link between saturated fat and heart disease has been completely debunked. As for the vegetarian with reactive hypoglycemia, you're not eating enough protein! That's not SP's fault. Kombucha and apples is not a complete breakfast. The choices you gave for your meat-eating friends had protein in them. Its not necessarily that you need more points, it's that you need to eat foods that give you balanced nutrition. I agree that WW hasn't quite caught up with the science because they're still making fat too costly. I eat my weeklies and some of my Fit Points-- avoid carbs and sugar -- and use the app for social support & am finding a truly sustainable lifestyle that keeps my blood sugar level and eliminates cravings. I am also losing at a fast clip. What I don't like about WW is what all you PP people love: it's tacit encouragement for eating highly processed, fake foods and lots of sugar.

Kathy Wolf, you really don't get it, do you? That's because you aren't thinking about it very hard. If you were a vegan and you answered my question you would offer advice on low point vegan protein choices but you didn't you know why? Because there aren't any. Try walking in my shoes for one week and then offer your advice, ok?

p.s. the reactive hypoglycemia is a reaction that lots of omnivores have to a low carb diet too. I found that info from a ketogenic site!

People keep telling me WW SmartPoints is not a low carb plan, but please make no mistake about it, the new WW SmartPoints plan IS a low carb diet! If you want to follow it for more than a couple of months, and not become ill, you definately have to be low carbs. If you don't believe me plug your daily food into a regular nutrition calculator and check it out. It IS low carb.

WW changes their program every year or so when new data is out there on what is the healthier way to eat. I have been on just about all of their programs -- since the 70s. And this one is by far the BEST of all. I finally this last time of losing my weight have been able to keep it off and that is because I eat the way the new program encourages you to eat. I follow Simply Filling or the no-count option. I am not a vegetarian, but I don't eat a whole lot of meat. I do eat fish, but I also eat a lot of beans. I have a sweet tooth, so I do indulge occasionally in cake or ice cream or candy. But what really helps me with that is fruit. Fruit is not FREE on WW. It is zero points. The thinking of WW, as explained by one of my leaders, is that they would rather you reach for a piece of fruit, which used to be one or two points, rather than an unhealthy snack of the exact same amount of points in the old days. I do eat a lot of fruit -- four to five a day. If you want to be healthy and stay that way and stay at a good weight for the rest of your life, this is the way you have to learn to eat. If you aren't happy with the program, go elsewhere, but it is the only one for me. It works.

Actually, Mary, I do get it. I have been a vegan, a vegetarian, and I am also / have also been hypoglycemic. The answer for hypoglycemia is to eat protein with every meal. As a vegan, your protein sources are legumes and vegetables and nuts. 3 oz of tofu is one point. If you eat processed foods, all the artificial meat products are probably low in points. If you eat gluten, then a serving of seitan slices is one point. I agree that WW science has not completely figured out how to weight calories differently because it started as a calorie-restriction diet only & it is evolving to try to eliminate the excess sugar it allowed bc bad science (fraud) said sugar was fine and fat was bad. This makes things like avocado and nuts very expensive points wise. What I am doing on the polar opposite side from you (ketogenic) is just giving myself excess points and minding the things I eat (low carb / no sugar) -- this allows me to lose weight every week and have great energy. Lots of vegans eat way too much sugar and have generally unhealthy diets -- my ex-husband is a vegan and ended up with Type 2 diabetes (not thru WW) because he basically had too many carbs in his diet. If you want to hit me up off line, let me know and I will assist you in creating a menu that meets both your nutritional needs AND your points.

Ok Kathy,

Let me take you at your word, as if you really have tried following the WW SmartPoints system as a vegan or a vegetarian for at least one week.

I went through and tried to find all the low point PROTEIN foods that I could. This is a challenge for you: I'd like to see how many of these proteins you will incorporate in EVERY MEAL for one week, just as you have suggested vegans should.

0 points for unlimited servings:
Green beans

Broccolli (3 grams protein per 100 grams weight)

Spinach (5 grams protein per 100 grams weight)

Parsley (5 grams protein per 100 grams weight)

Bean sprouts
Sugar snap peas in the pod
Chinese pea pods, snow peas
Seaweed spirulina raw

Mustard powder (29 grams protein per 100 grams weight)

One serving will count as 0 points, but more than that has points to be counted:

Wasabi peas, 1 gram

Bragg premium nutritional yeast seasoning I Tbl

Cocoa powder unsweetned, 1 Tbl (19 grams of protein per 100 grams weight)

1 point for either 1 full or partial serving:

PB2 powdered protein, 2 Tbl
Raw shelled hemp seeds, 1 tsp
Nutriva hemp protein 3 Tbl

Kidney beans, 1/4 cup (1/2 cup is a single serving) (7 grams protein per 100 grams weight)

Black eyed peas, 1/4 cup (1/2 cup is a single serving)

Tofu lite or regular, soft or firm (but not extra firm), 3 oz

Hummus, 1 Tbl (2 Tbl is a single serving)

Soy protein isolate, 3 oz (I don't even know what this is)

Almond milk unsweetened, 8 fl oz

Pumpkin seeds pepitas 1 Tbl

Sesame seeds, 1 tsp (19 grams protein per 100 grams weight)

Gardein garden grown protein beefless ground, 1/2 cup

Bobs Red Mill nutritional food yeast, 1/4 cup

Hi All, I think Whe can agree on 3 things here. First some of us like smart points and other don't, like me. Secondly we should probably be complaining to Weight Watchers However, they might not listen. It is all about personal choice. I don't think people should get on here and criticize each other. Weight Watchers now appears to be all about Oprah and making money. So like me if you are dissatisfied like me stop throwing your money away. Let's either use our posts to support each other or just drop this altogether. We have been posting for about 6 months now so it is starting to get a little old in my opinion anyway. Thanks for reading. Good luck to all no matter which weight loss program you choose..

I lost 30 pounds on points plus! I wanted to rejoin 3 years later to shed 10 pounds. Smart points is terrible... It is more about dieting than making smart choices/portion control like points plus was. Six points for a nutrigrain bar?!? If I wanted to cut carbs out of my diet completely I would have joined atkins or south beach.


First of all, I didn't say vegans should do anything. I said I could work the WW SP program as a vegan and keep my hypoglycemia in check because my experience with hypoglycemia says it's all about protein and there are low SP vegan protein sources. I offered to speak with you offline and work with you to develop healthy nutritious menus for you to do the same. I'm not interested in arguing with you. In my life, I have been through several self-imposed dietary regimens (as lifestyles) -- including vegetarian, vegan, kosher, kosher vegetarian, pescatarian / no dairy ... For me, low carb, Whole Foods, ketogenic diet is what my body runs best on. I buy organic, well-raised meat. I use WW SP as a portion control guide. I try to keep up with the science around weight loss. My offer still stands.

Great points Shelly and Mia! I agree totally with you all. Like I have pointed out on here before, WW doesn't really have any way to "sound off" so I think we all have been using this site to vent. Mary and Kathy, you both seem to know your stuff but it's all over my head because I am not a vegetarian or vegan and can't relate. That was an excellent point, Mia, about doing Atkins, etc. if you wanted to cut out carbs. Mary, you made a statement about that earlier that SP is low carb which I agree with. I just know I don't like the SP program compared to PP and that's my opinion (we all have them) and I'm sticking to it.

I read all of the comments on here. Everyone is debating many issues with SP and once I stopped to think about it... I know that I can't speak for everyone so this is my opinion. I think the main problem with SP for people that need to lose a lot of weight is just the mere fact that a lot of us (definitely me) are used to eating like crap. We join WW to learn how to eat and, hopefully, lose weight. I've been on many of the WW plans and have lost weight, PP being the best plan that I was on. And, yes, I did gain the weight back. That's not because the plan didn't work, it was just me giving up. Any kind of "diet" or "lifestyle change" is hard and you have to commit yourself to it -- sometimes giving up is easier than sticking to it. Sometimes the taste of food is better than losing weight (again, that's how some of us got to this point). For me, who is used to eating crap, when I first started SP, it wasn't so bad because it was new and exciting and I was committed to doing it. The second week was hard because I wanted to eat some "crap." On PP, you could incorporate some "crap" into your diet as long as you watched your portions. I know on SP you COULD do the same thing, but processed food now has so many points that it's not worth it to eat it. BUT, when you're used to eating like crap, it's hard to just quit cold turkey. Believe me, I know processed food, sugar, and basically anything to excess is not good for you. I KNOW that but it's hard for some of us to stop eating it. On PP, you could eat some "bad" stuff and as your points got lower, you made adjustments to things you ate. We are all different and I know some people love SP. I wish I could! I'm going to try again and see how it goes. I have always found WW to be a good program (like I said - the program worked for me, but I had to work the program and I didn't; I just gave up). Please wish me luck. And, I wish all of you luck in whatever plan you choose to follow. Sorry if I've rambled on and on....

I do wish you luck Jen. I know from experience how hard it is. I have said many times since joining WW in 1998 that you can follow most any program for the short term, but it's a lot harder to do it for years. I see so many new members being so enthused at the beginning only to crash and burn later. I am a very by the book person and I have kept food journals since first joining WW all those years ago. I just got so tired of counting every single thing I ate and agonizing over weigh-ins. I have been Lifetime since 1999 and once I remember having to pay because I was 1/2 pound over. When they completely changed the program from PP to SP it was just the last straw for me. I just didn't have the drive to essentially "start all over again" and it seemed like all WW wanted was for everyone to have to buy all new materials just to make money because they've been losing money over the years and that's why they completely revamped the program and brought Oprah on board. I think the program really does work IF you don't deviate from it.

I don't like the new smart points program I gave it a chance could not get in to it so I did my own diet lost more weight on my own and saved a lot of money I really gave it a chance did it three times and failed miserably

I have tried various WW programs and this new SP approach has me so discouraged. I find it too restrictive, and psychologically I think I'm rebelling against it. I like to try the new recipes, and honestly, I've found very few recipes in the weekly sheets or on line that look or sound good. I did so well on the PP program and the program before it. Going to drop WW once again and dig out the old WW recipe books to eat healthfully.

I tried to cancel the subscription to WW and they just kept pushing me not to. Wanted to know if my personal lift style was the problem. Was I not counting the food correctly. Just couldn't take that I didn't like the program and the fact that they auto renewed my membership when I checked not to. They don't give credits either. Had to block them on my card.

Brooklea, I totally understand you being discouraged. I haven't gone to my WW meetings in a year and in some ways I miss it. I just didn't like the SP program at all and found the changes startling and too extreme. Loved the PP program I did for years, but if this is not what WW is now I didn't feel right sitting there listening to everything about SP when I wasn't following it. I have gained 10 pounds over the last year and this is very depressing for me. I hurt my knee the middle of April so now I'm unable to walk for exercise like I have for 30 years regularly and can't bowl or do other activities I was avid about doing. I am sure this has also had an effect on my weight. I keep saying I might go back to WW. I know my Leader (same one I've always gone to since 1998) is wondering about me. Again, I would just feel like a fraud sitting there because I always contributed to the conversation at lot at meetings and I can't sit there and share how SP is working for me when I am not doing it!

I too dropped out of WW after the program change. It felt like a diet and I felt backed into a corner. All the foods I enjoyed and that still made it possible for me to follow the program and loose are now too high in points to enjoy.

I totally agree Rita. I don't see how PP could have been SO bad when so many lost weight on it.

I LOVED Points Plus and Simply Filling--they always worked great for me. I was always able to maintain within 3-5 lbs of goal for 20 years as a Lifetime Member. I DO NOT LIKE Smart Points at all and because of that I have stopped doing the program. Too restrictive, especially on healthy fats like avocado, and takes away all incentive to stay on program all day in exchange for a "treat" at night--like Healthy Choice Fudgsicle, etc. Very disappointed in Weight Watchers, which I thought was the answer for me.

Fat free and light products don't agree with my stomach can I still join weight watchers? I was on weight watchers before and list 35 pounds. I loved the meetings and recipes. But then blood pressure went up and started having stomach issues. Yet went back if not more on my weight. Help please!

I don't want blood sugar is ok, but I have PCOS. I'm glad to see the Smart Points program. It's like a pre-diabetic diet. It's working for me! You get weekly points, so there shouldn't be a problem. As long as you get plenty of exercise you should be able to go a tad over on points and still be okay. I think this is a very reasonable plan, and a good platform for lifelong healthy eating.

I just started the new program and am hopeful because I was NOT able to lose weight on the PointsPlus program! I had been able to with other WW programs in the past but that one was too permissive for me! Hoping this one works better since it IS more restrictive. Thanks for changing, WW.

Julie, I guess that's what makes the world go round, or keeps WW in business, as we are all different. Did the PP program for years and it worked for me. Tried the new SP for a short period and hated it. It was the only program change (became Lifetime in 1999) that I just couldn't do. I miss my leader of all those years, but just can't sit there and listen if I don't believe in the Program anymore.

I don't know any thing yet

I am also frustrated with smart points , it's the third change of WW since I started . I do find it restrictive , I'm sure it's good but .. it's hard and I can't get my head into it . FYI the cookbooks and calculators have been 1/2 price , I was told that smart points are staying just some adjusting and / or more products ? I think oprah has been a detriment , I am personally offended by comments about old white people need to die .. yet she wants our money .. smh

Well I have been disappointed in WW for se

I just am still so disappointed that they changed the program so drastically from PP to SP. I haven't gone to WW meetings in a year and a half now. I'm not blaming Oprah because she is just a spokesperson, but I saw her the other day on the talk show Harry and she evidently isn't doing Program any more than I am because, if she was, after all this time she would certainly be thinner by now. I wish I hadn't spent money on all the new SP materials because I don't even use them. I have gained weight even though I have kept food journals since 1999. Lately I have tried just going back to PP on my own and have lost a little. I did the PP program for so many years successfully and it worked for me. In some ways I do not know how WW is still in business because so many are using other programs that they get on their phones or on line that I've heard cost less and you don't have to go to meetings. I've said this before, but I think that's one reason they changed the Program so drastically when they brought in Oprah. I'm sure they needed money and you can certainly get that through changing the program so that members have to buy all new materials to follow it. I had countless cookbooks and other materials for PP so hadn't bought anything in a long time and was Lifetime at Goal so rarely paid anything to attend meetings. This, coupled with people dropping out and using other more convenient programs, caused WW to be in a struggle monetarily. I read this several places.

Well, Debra, I’m pretty sure they’re about to change the program YET AGAIN. 😡 Everything is on sale for 50% off at the meetings. Here we go again. Hopefully the change won’t come at Thanksgiving like it did last time. WW was so horribly unprepared for the launch. The app didn’t work for weeks and I lost all my foods and recipes that I had saved on the app. I struggle big time with SP but loved PP. SP is just too restrictive for me. Let’s hope they have it together this time.

I’m thinking you all may love the new plan . It’s has a lot of no smart point food. It looks like Simply Filling to me which I follow already. I can have a nice steak, baked potato , veggies and all free no SP

Wendy, this just backs up my opinion I posted earlier that every time the program is changed the materials become obsolete thereby resulting in updates for WW as members buy all new materials. It might be that they have received so many complaints or had Lifetime Members like myself who were loyal for years dropping out that they are making changes. They have always had Simply Filling (which used to be called Core) in some form, Rachel. I just might have to go to a meeting (haven't gone in a year and a half since I was not happy with the changes from PP to SP) to see what's going on! I know my leader is wondering what happened to me. I just think WW has been making too many changes over the last several years. Members no sooner get familiar and comfortable with a Plan, buy new materials, etc. and they make huge changes! It's frustrating.

I am thrilled at what I'm reading about the new Weight Watchers program for 2018. I understand that it will be introduced the week of December 3rd.

I was a complete failure at Smart Points. The only thing that I lost was a lot of money as I tried over adn over and over, but I just couldn't do it.

This is the first time I've been optimistic about Weight Watchers since the debacle of Smart Points was introduced.

I LOVE the new FREESTYLE program! After the first 2 weeks of truly getting it down my success continued! I am a lifetime vegetarian so getting points has always been hard and I thought this would be worse....but as always WW made things clear & easy. If you work the plan the plan works. That’s it!

I have been very resistant to Smart Points. However, since they came up with Free Style I am in the meetings again. This makes much more sense to me. I love the rollover option and the free foods. I am having success with free style. By the way I am not a vegetarian.

After reading your comment, Shelley, I am looking forward to going to my first WW meeting in a year and a half tomorrow. I’ve been boycotting since about six months into the Plan when it changed from PP (which I was happy with) to SP (which I hated.). I’ve been Lifetime since 1999 and this is the longest I’ve ever stayed away. I want to see what Freestyle is all about. I miss my meetings and the connection with other like-minded people. I’m hoping that due to the fact that Smart Points haven’t gone over like the powers at be may have predicted, that they have listened and made positive changes. I’ll hope for the best and give an update in the future as to what I think.

Good luck Debra. It Is still smart points, but this new approach is definitely doable. So far I am very motivated and have lost 13 pounds. You will love the extensive free food list.

Hey Shelly! Just wanted to say that I did go to my WW meeting yesterday. I've gone to meetings conducted by the same leader since 1998 when I first joined. This was the third time in all those years that I had stayed away for a while. My leader always knows I'll come back. I stayed after (along with two other members, one of which had never tried WW at all. I told my leader how I had researched as much as I good on line but, of course, they don't reveal too much about the new plan. My prediction was correct in that the "new" Free Style is very similar to the Core Plan of years ago or Simply Filling foods. I mean they have added a few things (like eggs)or fish that are now free, but it is just a new way (I think) to make it sound more attractive since so many have criticized the SP plan for being much more restrictive. After the other two ladies left I spoke with my leader alone and told her how I REALLY felt about SP and why I'd discontinued coming. She said she'd had many members struggling with the changes. She and I have always spoke candidly (not in front of others) because after 20 years we have that kind of relationship. Several years ago I actually went to work for a short time at the corporate office of WW in our area (which you can only do if your Lifetime at goal.) She knows from that experience that I know some "inside info" about the workings of WW. I told her I would give it a try. Incidentally, and this isn't something I've ever mentioned to her, all these years I have looked at her and thought that she is "overweight" in my book. I know that they give leaders a little more leeway in the weight department. She always states she lost 60 pounds on WW nearly thirty years ago when she was a size 22. Well, roughly that would put her at a size 10 or so -- which she most definitely is NOT. I KNOW that the leaders also struggle with changes, but they can NEVER say this to members although she did tell me that once. They actually are put on "notice" so to speak that there will be an impending suspension if they need to lose weight. She told me this happened to her once and I asked her how she lost it and she said "Basically by starving myself" because her job was on the line. I intend on going back next month for my weigh in (I am not going every week and paying $11.00 when I don't have to). I'm giving it my best shot. I'm a by-the-book person as I told her yesterday (and she knows this) so I'll try again to see if I can make myself like SP.

A really informative article!

Haven't been on here in quite a while. As my last comment stated, I did give SP another try after going back to a meeting after the first of the year and getting the new materials. Unfortunately, I haven't been back since then because after six weeks of trying the Program (to the letter)I only lost about two pounds -- well, between one and two pounds because it kept fluctuating I got very frustrated and had never lost THIS slowly on any of the other Programs. I haven't gone back, but am back on the Program for about six weeks again and just like before have only lost a couple of pounds. I've read where others have commented that they lose very, very slowly with the new Freestyle Program and that's an understatement. I am getting frustrated again to say the least. I mean, losing a couple of pounds is better than gaining them I guess. Not sure what my next move will be.

I feel the pain of so many of you who have commented. I still have my points plus materials. That is what I do, and no I don't spend money on any meetings anymore. Points Plus was the best program. It wasn't broken. The only reason WW fixed it so to speak was just to continue to make more money. So my advice is find the program that works for you, stick to it, and don't fret over the changes. Good luck to all.

I agee completely Shelley! I still have all my PP materials also. I should maybe just go back to it. It's funny that a few people have stated that PP promoted foods with more sugar content and thereby "unhealthy" foods. Well, it's funny that Program resulted in greater and faster weight loss as has been stated by many longtime WW Lifetime members. SO many have said that PP was the best WW Program they ever tried. I agree. I don't think there was anything wrong with the Program but when they brought Oprah onboard they had to "rebrand" and create a totally new Program thereby requiring members to buy ALL new materials, cookbooks, etc. It had been published that WW was struggling financially before that so bringing on Oprah and a revamped Program surely generated more income for them. I do think they have lost some loyal members such as myself in the process though.

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